The mosque controversy

[Guest CharliePS]

The commentary about the mosque is really interesting for what most opponents don't say, but what it reveals about their mindset. Apparently, a majority of non-Muslim Americans believe that all Muslims are, or ought to feel, responsible for 9/11. If the hijackers had been Christian fundamentalists, or even just nominal Christians, I wonder how many Americans would think it was insensitive or offensive for a Christian group to propose opening a church near the WTC site. I suspect they would applaud it as a "healing gesture."

[TotallyOz]

I find the outrage over the Mosque in NYC Outrageous. NYC is (or was) the true melting pot. All people, religions, etc are supposed to be welcomed with open arms. I have no problem with the Mosque in my city or near the ground zero area. Sadly, it does speak volumes of where we are headed when even NYC caves in to intolerance.

[Guest Klair]

I am opposed to the idea of the mosque, but not because I have anything against the Islamic religion. I just don't think it would be appropriate for a religious structure to be built there at all, no matter what the religion might be.

[KYTOP]

I am opposed to the idea of the mosque, but not because I have anything against the Islamic religion. I just don't think it would be appropriate for a religious structure to be built there at all, no matter what the religion might be.

There is a Catholic Church that over looks the site. Should it be torn down?

[KYTOP]

The commentary about the mosque is really interesting for what most opponents don't say, but what it reveals about their mindset. Apparently, a majority of non-Muslim Americans believe that all Muslims are, or ought to feel, responsible for 9/11. If the hijackers had been Christian fundamentalists, or even just nominal Christians, I wonder how many Americans would think it was insensitive or offensive for a Christian group to propose opening a church near the WTC site. I suspect they would applaud it as a "healing gesture."

I must admit there is much about this situation I do not understand. I believe religious freedom is a huge part of what this country was founded on. The reason many came here in the first place.

With that said, is there a certain reason why they chose this location? Most churches decide to build because of the location of their congregation. Is there a large Muslim population in lower Manhattan?

Even churches have to meet zoning laws. We had one of those Mega-Churches (Christian) that had to jump thru many hoops to be built here in my city. They even had to adhere to parking requirements required by zoning and had to make public road changes at the church's expense.

I will say I am surprised by the reaction of the people of New York and more so now that it has become a national issue for some reason.

Another thing, how politically stupid can President Obama get to get himself involved in this? Now he has his own party on the defensive. Even Harry Reid came out against the Mosque today after Obama mentioned support of the Mosque. It is a close election in Nevada and an issue like this could be just enough to chnage the turnout of Conservatives. With the majority of people opposed to it, according to polls, it sure isn't an issue to get his base worked up. But it sure is getting the Conservative base worked up. Turnout in a mid term election is what always carries so much weight due to it usually having lower turnouts. Just another issue to charge up the Republican base and even the Independents. Smooth move Mr President.... NOT!!!

When are we going to concentrate on the Economy!!!!!!!!!

[JKane]

I am opposed to the idea of the mosque, but not because I have anything against the Islamic religion. I just don't think it would be appropriate for a religious structure to be built there at all, no matter what the religion might be.

It's blocks from the damn site, "Ground Zero Mosque" is nothing but inflammatory right wing BS! What about the (by this SAME definition) "ground zero strip club"??? Fucking Harry Reed and his total lack of balls.

For Mohamed's sake it's not even a fucking mosque!

[MsGuy]

From comment section of JKane's 2nd link:

[it's] "just this once let's ignore the Constitution because they're Muslims and they're all at war with us and none of them can be trusted and this is holy ground and it's pissing off white people like me and you're all fools if you don't see it my way and why are you looking at me like I'm crazy you're crazy" nonsense.

[Guest Klair]

There is a Catholic Church that over looks the site. Should it be torn down?

Not if was already there prior to 9/11. If it was built after 9/11 I don't think I would say to tear it down, but I would say I think it was inappropriate to build it there.

[TampaYankee]

The commentary about the mosque is really interesting for what most opponents don't say, but what it reveals about their mindset. Apparently, a majority of non-Muslim Americans believe that all Muslims are, or ought to feel, responsible for 9/11. If the hijackers had been Christian fundamentalists, or even just nominal Christians, I wonder how many Americans would think it was insensitive or offensive for a Christian group to propose opening a church near the WTC site. I suspect they would applaud it as a "healing gesture."

You have voiced my thoughts exactly.

First and foremost this is a local issue, not a national issue. A group wants to build a religious affiliated community center on property they aready own in which have some facilities presently operating, in the neighborhood near the WTC site, not on the site or across the street from the site.

Unfortunately, this controversy is fanned by those who play the politics of division for cheap electoral advantage among the bases, the predjudiced because that is just the way they are, and the aggrieved because they havent yet been able to view the 9/11 event on an objective basis and may never be able to, which is understandable.

It is just one more unpleasant taste of the times.

[Lucky]

There is already another mosque near Groujnd Zero which attracts no attention, and even the newer mosque already exists as a storefront mosque. (In the hallowed ground of the former Burlington Coat Factory!) All they are doing is expanding it, and I am all for it...but I sure do oppose their views on women and gays and Jesus!

[Guest restless]

(In the hallowed ground of the former Burlington Coat Factory!)

It is! I bought my first suit there! LOL

[Guest restless]

There was somebody on one of the shows that joked about how just for the record, they are against the new Arby's being built in Reno. I thought it was the perfect metaphor. I live in NYC and I'm around relatively conservative people all day - and not one of them gives a shit about the community center. They do give a shit that it's all over the news and they want the talk about it to go away.

Anybody see my personal wonk fantasy Chris Hayes last night? When he broke it down how the "non"troversy started? It's some batshit lady who's crazier than Orly Taitz. This lady thinks Obama has purple gang colors and his administration coordinates their clothing.

[Guest Klair]

First and foremost this is a local issue, not a national issue.

I don't agree with that at all. Not only is it a national issue, it's an international issue. Only a local issue? Tell that to the families of all the foreigners who were killed there. While I realize it wasn't the UN building that was destroyed, it was the World Trade Center. The way I see it, building a mosque anywhere near there makes about as much sense as placing a Nazi flag at the grounds of Yad Vashem.

Where's Helen Brown when you need her?

[Lucky]

“I must say, never in the history of modern-day presidential politics has a president confessed his faith in the Lord, and folks basically call him a liar.” Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/us/politics/19memo.html?hp

[TampaYankee]

I don't agree with that at all. Not only is it a national issue, it's an international issue. Only a local issue? Tell that to the families of all the foreigners who were killed there.

Does that include the Moslem families of all the Moslem foreigners that were killed?

While I realize it wasn't the UN building that was destroyed, it was the World Trade Center. The way I see it, building a mosque anywhere near there makes about as much sense as placing a Nazi flag at the grounds of Yad Vashem.

Did you check that out with the Moslem families of all the Moslem foreigners that were killed?

Rather than post an argument against your sentiment, I just refer you to Joe Scarborough's dismantling of Newt Gingrich's position which seems the same as your's or very much similar. Google it or look around the HuffPost for it.

[Guest Klair]

I just refer you to Joe Scarborough's dismantling of Newt Gingrich's position

He has his opinion. I have mine. Very sorry, but coming up with absurd loaded questions, such as "Did you check that out with the Moslem families of all the Moslem foreigners that were killed?" neither changes my position nor supports yours.

[BiBottomBoy]

The whole thing is ridiculous. Do you have any idea how far two city blocs is in New York? It's essentially in a different neighborhood. And on the hallowed ground of Burlignton Coat Factory. And there is a strip club and a McDonalds that actually look out onto the real Ground Zero.

[TampaYankee]

He has his opinion. I have mine. Very sorry, but coming up with absurd loaded questions, such as "Did you check that out with the Moslem families of all the Moslem foreigners that were killed?" neither changes my position nor supports yours.

Didn't expect to change your position, just to ask if you considered the feelings of those Moslem family members whose loss was just as great. Why do you value their loss any less? Also, to point out the sentiment you hold differs with some notable conservative opinions who did a pretty good job of dismantling that position.

With regard to your trying to scope this local question as a world-wide issue, I will agree that Islamic Terrorism is an interntional scourage with attacks around the world against many targets, many of those western targets. However, it is just as true that these terrorists have killed many more Moslems than Westerners -- hundreds. maybe thousands of times more, with no discrimination for women and children. This really isn't US against the Moslems. The Islamic terrorists are against all who don't toe their line.

[Guest Klair]

Didn't expect to change your position, just to ask if you considered the feelings of those Moslem family members whose loss was just as great.

You seem to be focused on the Islamics. I am not. I don't think a religious structure of any kind or any religion should be built there. Obviously anyone who lost family and friends felt the loss no matter what their religion was, not to mention that many victims might also have been atheists. What about their families?

Based on what you are saying, it would make just as much sense to build a mosque at the Pennsylvania crash site or at the Pentagon. An old friend of mine, and attorney for the Pentagon, was killed there that day. He was Jewish. Would it be appropriate, then, to build a memorial synagogue within two blocks of the Pentagon?

Whatever is being built in those areas, I don't think individual religions should have anything to do with it.

[MsGuy]

An old friend of mine, and attorney for the Pentagon, was killed there that day. He was Jewish. Would it be appropriate, then, to build a memorial synagogue within two blocks of the Pentagon?

What about a synagogue would you find inappropriate? I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, Klair, I honestly don't get it. Believers build their meeting places all over the place. Some spots churches are thicker than fleas on a yard dog. Why not two blocks from the Pentagon?

Whatever is being built in those areas, I don't think individual religions should have anything to do with it.

I've been a straight up atheist living in the deep South for almost 50 years. I find much believer nonsense odd but their mania for building temples of every concievable sort in all kinds of odd places is nowhere near the top of my list of their objectionable behaviors. I do encourage my civil authorities to require adequate off street parking before issueing a building permit but I don't sense that your concerns lie in that direction.

[TampaYankee]

You seem to be focused on the Islamics. I am not.

I inferred you were. My mistake.

Whatever is being built in those areas, I don't think individual religions should have anything to do with it.

I can respect that position. For me, I don't really care one way or the other. I'm not a big religion fan. I definitely don't like to see it used as a political wedge. Some in this country are trying to do just that. That has caused too much damage throughout history.

The terrorists cloak their crusade in religion when it is very definitely about politics, not religion. Some on our side do the same, if not with equivalent terror.

[caeron]

Here's a link to all the things in the same radius of ground zero:

http://daryllang.com/blog/4421

This debate is just stupid and shows how much bullshit has replaced substance in the national debate.

[BiBottomBoy]

To be fair 9/11 doesn't represent the religious views of Muslims at all. The Koran specifically states "Don't attack civilians." Instead it represents the views of a weird death cult that has created its own fan fiction version of The Koran.

It would be like blaming the Christian Faith as a whole for the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.

[Guest restless]

Here's a link to all the things in the same radius of ground zero:

http://daryllang.com/blog/4421

This debate is just stupid and shows how much bullshit has replaced substance in the national debate.

Great link. The other thing that's around there are tons of closed up shops after no one moved back to the hood. I say, they should be welcoming all kinds of businesses to come back - I live nearby and it's fucking depressing to see it all closed up after so long. Of course, I guess it'll help once they rebuild the fucking thing.

[Lucky]

Frank Rich has a masterful column this Sunday on the subject:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22rich.html?hp