Common Courtesy eludes impatient Farang in Go-go-Bar

[Guest PeterUK]

This has been an enjoyable thread to read, with good arguments on both sides. I know that I would never intervene if a boy I was interested in was sitting with another farang. That would be common courtesy in my book and I hope I would not have to classify someone as a 'friend' before extending such courtesy. If I was the one who was sitting with the boy and another farang wanted him, I would pay a lot of attention to the boy's own reaction. I remember one occasion when I had already told a boy I wanted to off him. Shortly thereafter, another farang entered the bar, shot my guy a glance, then sat some distance away. My guy hesitated, then asked if I would mind if he went to sit with the newcomer. He'd agreed to my offing him and I suppose I could have reminded him of that small fact, but my immediate thought was that, if he was that keen to be with the other farang, I would be unlikely to get very good service from him by thwarting him. So I let him go with as much dignity as I could muster. My ego, rather than other parts of me, needed a massage after that incident.

[TotallyOz]

So I let him go with as much dignity as I could muster. My ego, rather than other parts of me, needed a massage after that incident.

 

I know how you feel with this and I agree with your statements. I also know that many boys have regulars that really do pay their bills and they don't want to offend the one or two guys that are being overly generous to them. I have boys in a few bars that I know will go with me no matter who walked into the bar. Why? I have offed them a hundred times over the years and always been very generous and kind. When rent is due, I help., When mama have surgery I help. I don't want the boy as a boyfriend but I do like to spend time on occasion with him and he knows that he had much rather have a easy night with me rather than an unpredictable night with a stranger.

[Guest Geezer]

...

[Guest Aunty]

I agree there have been good points made on both sides of this argument. Personally I wouldn

[Gaybutton]

I agree there have been good points made on both sides of this argument.

 

Me too. I think we've had a lot of fun debating with each other on this thread. What I like most is that it did not degenerate into a lot of name calling and personal attacks. That is definitely refereshing.

 

In actuality, when you get right down to it, how many times is such a scenario going to happen in the first place? I know one thing. I probably won't have to personally worry about it. So far, the only person who ever seems to like my type is me, so there probably won't be a lot of other people who want the boy that interests me anyway. The rest of you can go right ahead and fight over a boy to your heart's content.

[Guest aaronaxeiss]

From my observations boys that are outstanding who gets many customers are usually comes with attitude especially bars that are not so popuilar. I experienced buying a drink for a boy at xman whom I thnk among the top 3 outstanding boys. He sat with me for 5mins and ask permission to leave to get ready for show and told me he'll be back. He didn't. I asked the mamasan what happened the mamasan showed me a blank face. Instead the boy was flirting with some girl customers. At the end of the show I asked the mamasan who'll pay for his drink. He gave me a blank face. I paid for the bill and this boy then came back sitting next to me. The mamasan asked whether I want to off him. I asked the mamasan to wait for the next lady customers for him and I walked out as it is already 12.30pm. I came back a couple of days later to disturb the mamasan. He asked if I want a boy to sit next to me. I told him O.K provided he pays for the drink and I pay for the off fee if I agree to off him.

And each time i visited the bar the mamasan will just ignore me. Another experience was in the Fresh boy bar, I call a boy sit with me and bought him a drink. Later he excused himself for a show. After the show ends I saw him approaching a farang who already has about 3 other boys with him. I asked the mamasan who also showed a blank face. Towards the end of the day the mamasan ask me if I want to off the boy he can ask the boy to sit with me. I challenged the mamasan if he can tell the boy of his rudeness in front of me than I will off him. He dares not. Like wise I did the same thing each time I visited the bar. I retiurn to the bars is because I don't feel good offending the other boys just because of these top boys.

[Guest Aunty]

I probably won't have to personally worry about it. So far, the only person who ever seems to like my type is me, so there probably won't be a lot of other people who want the boy that interests me anyway.

 

The mind boggels! Just what sort of guy is your type???

 

[Gaybutton]

The mind boggels! Just what sort of guy is your type???

 

Ha! I'm afraid your mind will have to continue to boggle. There are some things I prefer to keep personal. That's one of them.

[Guest wowpow]

Once I offed a boy and paid the off fee. Then a waiter came and asked "How much you tip boy" I asked why he wanted to know and he told me that another customer had asked for him and promised a huge tip. I was not pleased and told him to go with the other customer.I knew the boy before and again afterwards. Once of the nice things about living in Thailand is that you learn to not become upset about small things.

 

I have even booked a boy for the night and went to the bar and found him with a "big spender" not GT but that sort. The boy came over and apologised and went back to big spender who offed a half dozen Tawan lovelies.Again I saw him later. Seemingly, this guy takes a group back to his penthouse and the drink and sing karaoke. Each boy gets 2000 baht and if they go to the bedroom with him - and often others - an extra 3000 baht.

 

 

[Guest gonefishing]

I wonder what some of you think about those customers who gather five or six of the cutest boys in the bar for a hours of drinking at the busiest time of the night and then does not off any of them and leaves them all with a cheap tip and a very decreased chance of getting a paying customer that night.

 

Word gets around pretty quickly, so it is unlikely to happen again, at least with the same boys in the same bar.

 

The Mamasen is there to help things flow freely within the bar without hassles. That is his job. Most do it well .... I watch as the Mamasen casually walks over to the boy and in Thai or using some other code, informs the boy that another customer was waiting to off him. Within five minutes the boy makes the decision what he wants to do. The Mamasen returns to my table and tells me one of two things. Either the boy is taken already or to pay my tab and the off fee and wait outside a few minutes. After another 5 minutes the boy walks out and we simply walk away. No one knows the better.... It is very simple and no one gets their feelings hurt.... If on the other hand, the boy wants to take his chances with the first customer who has purchased a drink for him, he relates that to the Mamasen in their secret code and the Mamasen tells me that the boy has already been offed.

 

That is exactly how it should be done and, if the mamasan is any good at his job, exactly how it happens in most bars

 

I don't buy the argument that someone may be 'rescuing' a boy from a groping "farang." Somehow, I can't picture a "farang" as a knight in shining armor coming to the rescue by taking a boy "off," and then taking that same boy to his hotel room for sex. That's a rescue? I don't see it that way

 

Actually, GB, it does happen; some boys simply cannot outright refuse a farang for any number of reasons, whether it be bar policy or simply because the boy or mamasan want to avoid making a scene. I am anything but a "knight in shining armour", but on more than one occasion a boy sitting with a farang has asked the mamasan to ask me to buy him a drink and say that I will "off" him just to get away from the original farang (who they do not want to go with and who, they hope, will take offence and not ask them again). They do not necesarily want to go with me ( I am not quite that conceited!), but they made it very clear they just wanted an excuse to get away from a farang who they want to avoid at all costs - preferably permanently! And I do mean "at all costs", as they know I may well not "off" them and some have even insisted on giving me the money for the drink I have bought them!

 

 

I experienced buying a drink for a boy at xman whom I thnk among the top 3 outstanding boys. He sat with me for 5mins and ask permission to leave to get ready for show and told me he'll be back. He didn't. I asked the mamasan what happened the mamasan showed me a blank face. Instead the boy was flirting with some girl customers. At the end of the show I asked the mamasan who'll pay for his drink. He gave me a blank face. I paid for the bill and this boy then came back sitting next to me. The mamasan asked whether I want to off him. I asked the mamasan to wait for the next lady customers for him and I walked out as it is already 12.30pm. I came back a couple of days later to disturb the mamasan. He asked if I want a boy to sit next to me. I told him O.K provided he pays for the drink and I pay for the off fee if I agree to off him.... And each time i visited the bar the mamasan will just ignore me. Another experience was in the Fresh boy barLike wise I did the same thing each time I visited the bar. I retiurn to the bars is because I don't feel good offending the other boys just because of these top boys.

 

After deliberately provoking the mamasan each time you visit the bars, you are lucky that all that happened is that you got ignored. Remember, there are a lot of ways they can exact their revenge, some of which you will not even know about.

 

 

 

[ChrisUK]

Thanks for the comments. It's been most interesting so far, but I can't say I have altered my initial thoughts, just been more educated along the way about others. Most replies give me faith that even in the passionate atmosphere of a go-go bar (NOT brothel, please), it would seem most people are acting with a degree of civility.

 

Gaybutton, your remarks are a welcome reply to others and to clarify, I declined to pay the off fee bill as I was not offing him that night.

 

It's obvious that some regard the guys as pieces of meat to be used as you wish and to hell with anyone who gets in your way! You make assumptions that do not apply to me; the go-go guys know me enough to realise that I'm more generous than has been suggested for sitting with me. Yes, I've also seen guys bored out of their minds while sitting with customers, but if one seems that way with me, I let them go fairly soon. Happily, most guys seem content to be in my company and I with theirs. I pay them fairly for their time. I do the right thing with the bar by buying drinks as soon as I or a go-go guy joins me and I pay the off fee if taking the guy away, rather than arranging to see him after the bar closes. What more could the bar or guy want?

 

I realise that many bars regard their guys as re-cyclable commodities to achieve as much income from them as possible, but these guys are human beings with feelings. The guy who sat with me obviously wanted to stay with me, even though I explained I couldn'd off him that night, but rather the next night, but was being torn by the mamasan between two customers.

 

No scene was made by anyone, in fact I doubt if anyone other than a friend sitting next to me knew anything was untoward.

 

As a short postscript, I did off the guy the following night, the only downside being that I was completely ignored by both the manager and the mamasan. All the guys were their usual happy, playful selves.

 

Mai phen rai.

[Gaybutton]

Gaybutton, your remarks are a welcome reply to others and to clarify, I declined to pay the off fee bill as I was not offing him that night.

 

Thank you for that. Everyone has their opinions, although it is probably quite rare for this sort of situation to even arise. The one you talk about and the one Rainwalker described are the only two I have ever heard about. No matter how people feel about the issue, I think most would agree that there are better ways to handle a situation like that than was done in your case. Of course, it may have been the first time the waiter and mama-san ever had any such thing happen, so they may have been caught completely off guard and had no idea how they should handle a thing like that.

[Guest pete1969]

I'm not sure why this situation is so foreign to so many posters when I have seen it occur on numerous occassions from both ends. As stated previously, it is usually in those situations when a customer has a large group of guys around him (all still in their underwear and not in their street clothes) or in situations where it is known that the farang a boy is sitting with already has a bf, and the boy is just keeping him company (as is often the case with me).

 

I'm also not sure how my sentiments got twisted about the times when boys would like rescusing. We have all seen those tired customers who gather several boys around them for a long period (all the boys have empty drinks) and has no intention of offing any of the boys and is getting his jollies for a 20 or 50 baht tip. It doesn't make me more noble, but I for one am damn sure not going to sit and wait for that person's hour of cheap fun to be finished. I do remember a noble instance in offing a very quite boy one night who I had been with before after he had sat with a group of three younger farangs who were taking turns stroking his dick in full view of the bar and making rude and lewd loud comments. The boy was mortified, and I finally asked the waiter if they were offing the boy as he was still in his underwear (the waiter rolled his eyes and said no). That boy was grateful I had offed him, and I did feel a bit righteous that occassion.

 

I also happen to think that the people who advocate waiting one's turn are more of the ones who are using the boy as a piece of meat and have no feelings for the boy (if any of us really have to be guilty of that). If you have been politely asked if you want to off the boy, and you know there is a paying customer waiting for him, and you deprive him of earning money that night (beyond the much smaller tip you are going to pay him for sitting with you), then who is really looking out for the interests of the boy? If I know a boy has a better deal than me waiting, then I will gladly send him on his way to make the maximum amount of money.

 

Again, for me, if a boy is sitting with you in his underwear, and the mamsan asks you to off him or cede him to another customer who wants to off him, then you should be able to decide within that span of your drink what to do. If you insist on keeping the boy with you when you know someone else wants to off him, then I honestly don't think it is the other customer who is the rude one and who is treating the boy like a piece of meat.

 

(And please note, these scenarios only apply to those situations when the guys are still in their underwear and obviously not offed--I can't think of any situation where it is okay for a farang to even try to approach a boy who is obviously offed already or is in his street clothes sitting with another customer.)

[Guest wowpow]

Amazing how peoples views, understanding of the situation and selfishness/generosity of spirit differ. I wonder if anyone give a damn what the boy wants in these situations or even the Mamasan.

 

I think that most boys joining a customer hope to be offed but accept that some just like company and buy a drink and leave a tip. Income 130 baht or so.

 

If another customer offers to off him, he would find it difficult to refuse and probabaly would not want to. Probable income 600 to 1500 baht.

 

The Mamasan is happy for boys to sit with customers if they buy them drinks and hopefully off them. If an offer of an off is made then he stands to make 200 to 400 baht more.

 

It is expecting too much to go into a place that sells sex commercially and expect refined etiquette to prevail over profit.

 

Just on the perceived rudeness of asking to off a boy who is with another customer. How about friends who hit on your gentleman of the evening or boy special which some will do in front of you and even if you ask them to cool it will say "Oh but I fancy him rotten" as if that were some excuse. When I go out with my special friend to a gay event or party he usually comes away with several name cards and telephone numbers. Happily he takes this as a compliment.

 

Even I have done that on one occasion. I saw the handsomest of men waiting outside Dream Boys when I was in Dick's Cafe. Eye contact did nothing. Eventually a farang arrived and they drank in Dick's Cafe and seemed to be having very intense conversation. Later when I was at Tawan bar they came in and when the farang went to the toilet I gave the boy my name card. He rang the following day and said I could see him. I felt ashamed and never did.

 

[Gaybutton]

I also happen to think that the people who advocate waiting one's turn are more of the ones who are using the boy as a piece of meat and have no feelings for the boy

 

I still am in disagreement with you. I don't think we're in the bars to pass judgment over what we see going on between other "farang" and a bar boy and then interfere on the premise that we are coming to the rescue. Maybe the boy doesn't want to be rescued. Maybe the "farang" is going to offer a much larger tip than the 300 to 400 baht cheapskates too often give when they "off" a boy. We have no way of knowing and it really isn't our business in the first place. The boy isn't tied down to the seat. He can get up and go back to the stage or to another "farang" whenever he decides to. I've seen that occur several times and I've never seen a mama-san try to make him return to an abusive customer.

 

I think that sort of behavior on the part of a customer is inexcusable, but the bar boys are all well aware that sometimes there will be a "groper." It's something they know they have to deal with on occasion. Good or bad, it comes with the territory and they know it.

 

I think the people who see themselves as coming to the rescue ought to ask themselves a question. When you "off" the boy as a means of rescuing him, are you going to say, "Look. I'm sorry about what was going on with that other 'farang.' Here's 1000 baht. Go out and have a good time with it or go home, or whatever you want to do," or are you going to take him back to your room for sex? To me, if you are going to do the former, then that is a true rescue. If you are going to take him to your room for sex, then somehow I fail to see the altruism.

[khaolakguy]

 

 

I think the people who see themselves as coming to the rescue ought to ask themselves a question. When you "off" the boy as a means of rescuing him, are you going to say, "Look. I'm sorry about what was going on with that other 'farang.' Here's 1000 baht. Go out and have a good time with it or go home, or whatever you want to do," or are you going to take him back to your room for sex? To me, if you are going to do the former, then that is a true rescue. If you are going to take him to your room for sex, then somehow I fail to see the altruism.

 

I think that you are getting a little too hung up on the altruism angle. That was just given as one example of why the actions of the Usurping Farang are acceptable. I agree completely with Pete's point in reply to Chris, who considered that the Usurper is treating the guy less well than the Squatters Rights farang. How can anyone consider it better treatment to insist that a guy stays with you, even though you may not off him, rather than give him the freedom to earn his keep?

 

I have only acted as the Usuper twice, as I recall, in a long career as a customer! On both occasions after receiving encouragement from the guy, I ascertained via the waiter that the Squatting Customer was not planning to off the guy, who subsequently joined me.

 

I have on half a dozen or more occasions been "usurped", and been quite happy about it. Some of you guys are way too territorial about this, "I saw him first, so he is mine, if I decide at some point over the course of an evening that I want him"!

[Gaybutton]

I have on half a dozen or more occasions been "usurped", and been quite happy about it. Some of you guys are way too territorial about this, "I saw him first, so he is mine, if I decide at some point over the course of an evening that I want him"!

 

You still twist around what I've said. I don't think I've said one word about insisting that a boy stay with you. My objection is the people who do the usurping, as you put it. I also don't think I ever said anything about 'the course of an evening.' I don't know where to draw the line, but if a customer has called a boy over, bought a drink for him, and continues to buy drinks for him, then yes, I think he has every right in the world to expect the boy to sit with him at least until he finishes his drink without somebody taking him "off" in the midst of it.

 

I'm glad you didn't mind being "usurped," and I'm sure others also wouldn't mind, but there are others who would be quite upset about it and I think rightly so.

 

On the other hand, quite often a mama-san comes over and asks if you intend to take the boy "off." If you say that you do not intend to take him "off" then yes, I don't see any reason to object if someone else wants to take him "off." If you say you haven't decided yet, but you are still paying for drinks for the boy, then I see plenty of reason to object. Either way, there's a big difference between a mama-san checking to see whether the boy will still be available that night and another customer coming in and trying to take that same boy.

 

I would have no problem at all if the second customer came over and politely asked if I am going to take the boy "off" and explain that if I am not, then he would like to. That puts the ball in my court. It gives me the choice, assuming I do not wish to take him "off" or if I have not yet decided, of saying that I'm not going to take him "off," but I'd like to finish my drink with him, or saying sure, if you want to take him "off" I have no objection, or some other polite answer. But if someone is trying to place me in a position in which I am suddenly forced to make a decision, that would not sit well with me at all.

[colmx]

Have you ever noticed how a boy suddenly becomes more appealing once he is sitting (or after being offed) by a farang?

 

I have often stared in wonderment as I see a boy (who I had seen earlier in the night in some bar) entering BBB or LCR on the arm of a farang... Suddenly that ugly duckling has turned into a swan!

 

(Or maybe that

[Bob]

There are times when I've been in bars I'm quite familiar with that I am chatting and buying drinks for boys I know (and most of the time my long-term friend is with me and I have no intention of offing anyone). So, in those circumstances, I know to expect the boys to jump off when there's a financial

reward awaiting (after all, as rotten as this sounds, we're talking about inventory in a business aren't we?).

I see both sides of the argument. If you have one falang with a boy who truly has no intention of offing him, then it would seem to me that another falang who will off him has the priority.Now, how one takes care of that situation tactfully is another question. The "offing" falang ought to wait in my view while I can also understand the the "non-offing" falang ought to be sensitive to the fact that the kid has a chance to earn some money.

 

 

[Guest gonefishing]

What I really object to is when a farang goes up to a boy who is in street clothes and obviously in your company...

 

What I really object to is when a farang goes up to a boy who is in street clothes and on his own and assumes that he is both available and looking for a farang, in Big C or elsewhere, and tries to chat him up with such polite one-liners as "can I f*** you?" - as has happened to my boy-friend on a number of occasions. He, fortunately, sees them for the low-life they are (and also takes it as a compliment!), while it annoys me intensely when he tells me.

[ChrisUK]

"All is fair in love and war"?

 

I don't know where that famous saying comes from, but I was expecting someone to quote it, even though it doesn't seem appropriate to the issues raised. Maybe it's an excuse for what I see as inappropriate behaviour. I've never understood the statement and console myself with the fact that trials for war crimes are being pursued at this very moment.

 

I could quote another irrelevency: "What goes around comes around"!

 

But let's not divert the original issues.

[fedssocr]

This is an interesting thread. I don't have very much experience in this area, so I am not sure I have much of value to add.

 

But surely if you are living there you will always have another chance to "off" the boy if you are missing out on this night. And I think that applies to both sides of the issue being discussed here. And is this some strange bar we're talking about that has but a single boy working in it? The time I spent in the bars was such that I would have had a nearly impossible time choosing among all of the boys on hand. Certainly there are other boys in the bar who would suffice at any given time, no?

 

What is it that you guys are looking for with these boys anyway? Are you trying to find a boyfriend? If that's the case this seems like an odd way to go about it.

 

I think I see both sides of the issue in question. But how long does it really take to decide if you want to off a guy? I think I have a pretty good idea when I call a guy over that I want to take him off or I wouldn't have called him in the first place. I think the bar in this case did the right thing. They give the customer who is buying the boy a drink a chance to off him first. What is it that you are trying to find out to make you decide that is going to take more than a minute to figure out? If you're not taking him off let the guy go make his money with the person that wants to take him.

 

Obviously this has never happened to me, but I have a hard time imagining that I would be upset if some one "usurped" me as it has been called above. It sounds like an ownership issue that some people seem to have. You don't own this guy or have dominion over him just because you bought him a drink. If you want to off him do it. If not, find some one else to off.

[Gaybutton]

You don't own this guy or have dominion over him just because you bought him a drink. If you want to off him do it. If not, find some one else to off.

 

Nobody said you have dominion over a boy because you bought him a drink. If he wants to go with another "farang," that's his decision.

 

It's the other "farang" trying to "off" a boy already sitting with someone else that I have a problem with. You said it yourself, "Certainly there are other boys in the bar who would suffice at any given time." Exactly.

 

I agree. If you want to "off" him, do it. The problem is that just because you are able to make an instant decision, that doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same thing. Some people take time making a decision and I don't think they should be forced to make a snap decision just because some other "farang" walks in and decides he wants the same boy. Let the other "farang" who wants the boy be the one to find someone else to "off" or let him be the one who waits.

 

Also, I don't think telling people who live there that they ought to be the ones who wait because they can go back any old time is justified. People who live in Thailand don't necessarily go to the bars every night. I certainly don't. I've got a lot more things to do than be in the bars every night, as if that is the only thing to do at night. As a matter of fact, people here on a holiday are likely to be in the bars much more often than permanent residents. In any case, I certainly would not want to be placed in a position in which I should give "right of way" to someone here on a holiday just because I live here. People who live here should be penalized for living here? I don't think so.

[fedssocr]

As a matter of fact, people here on a holiday are likely to be in the bars much more often than permanent residents. In any case, I certainly would not want to be placed in a position in which I should give "right of way" to someone here on a holiday just because I live here. People who live here should be penalized for living here? I don't think so.

 

You may not go to the bars every night but you have that option. Those of us who are just visiting don't. Penalized for living there?!? Dude, you live in f****** Thailand, how awesome is that!? If I lived there I would be hard pressed to feel I was being penalized simply because a boy who I may or may not want to off is being sought after by some one else. Count your blessings.

 

However, I am not advocating some sort of rule that says residents must give way to visitors. I'm just saying you potentially have more options than those of us visiting for a limited time. I guess I just come down on the side of whoever is willing to pay the off fee first gets the boy.

[Gaybutton]

potentially have more options

 

I count my blessings every day. Even when I'm having a frustrating problem I always step back and say, "At least I'm here having the problem."

 

Regarding the bars, yes, local residents potentially have more options, with emphasis on the word "potentially." I have no objection at all if a boy on whom I've set my sights gets "offed" by someone else. That's not the problem. My objection is that if I already have a boy sitting with me, and the bar is full of plenty of other boys, then I don't see any reason in the world why someone else gets to just walk in and decide to take the very boy I'm with or cause me to be forced to make a quick decision whether I want to "off" him or not.

 

I might 'potentially' have more options, but at least in my case I'll bet you're in the bars more times during your two week holiday than I'm in the bars during any six months of living here. Believe it or not, there are actually "farang" living in Thailand who don't wish to spend their lives going to the bars every night. Isn't that incredible? So, on those occasions when I'm in a bar, and on the even more rare occasions when I call a boy over, the last thing I would want is for some selfish person to waltz in and impose himself on me and the boy I'm with.

 

For those who try to justify that kind of an imposition by saying, "If someone is just sitting with him, but I'm going to 'off' him, then he'll make more money," is that so? I wonder if it occurred to those people that the person who got there first might only want the boy to sit with him long enough to share a drink, uninterrupted by someone who just can't wait. Doesn't a customer have a right to that? He'll get a tip from most people for that. He'll also get one from you if you're polite enough to at least allow the guy to finish his drink with the boy before trying to 'off' him.

 

One argument was that it might be someone's last night in Thailand. How do you know that is isn't also the other guy's last night? Even if you know that it isn't, he got there first. That's called tough luck.

 

Sorry, but if you walk into a bar, see a boy already sitting with a customer, and decide that's the boy you want (or want to 'rescue'), then I see no justification in trying to take the boy away from the person who got there first.