vinapu

the same credibility like putting Anwar Ibrahim in jail for sodomy I guess

I'd be careful to assess if boy is really interested in all my sightseeing and if he is not , better not to drag him along as apart from food issues it may be another reason for unhappy face. I took my Pattaya boy to Muang Boran / Ancient City / in Samut Prakhan giving him previously clear choice of going or not, he decided to go but after perhaps 2 hours ( site is vast and can consume good part of day ) he become clearly bored and disinterested to a point I was considering sending him home with taxi, which was handy because one we grabbed from street was driving us around the site as well. For the sake of world peace and due to debilitating heat I gave up and we returned to the hotel. Day or two later he expressed an interest with going with me , xiluzer and his friend to Grand Palace and this time I was firm. When he had enough I just told him I will see him in 2 hrs in a restaurant I pointed to on the site, gave him some feeding money and proceeded to survey the rest of compound alone. Bangkok boy in Pattaya , when we went to Ko Larn thought I'm kidding when I told him I want to climb the hill with Buddha foot but again I did not show any mercy leaving him waiting for me in a shade by the temple below with 100 baht for drinks and went my way. If Spoon's country in question is Cambodia and he would be inclined to , say, walk around the walls of Angkor Thom with boy I'd made sure his driver is following them in a distance or even better waiting at every next gate ( there are only 5 in full circle ) very valid question and one of those cases of ' however you turn , your ass is always behind" . We don't want to hurt boy's feeling by showing we lock all in sight but like to keep our possessions safe and intact as well. This is where trust in human decency and belief in humanity comes handy and one needs to take a plunge. In my case of Pattaya boy it was tested right away, safe in my room at Nantra did not work. I just play along, keeping money where it was / some in my garments , rest in my luggage / and not a penny was missing even if apart from him I had 2 other boys there on different nights. My advice will be to travel with boy at least known from previous engagement, hopefully more than one ( I offed both my travelling boys long time more than once before I took them with me ) and boy should be from massage or bar so at least there's some place we can go and complain, not that it helps. And do not lead him into temptation by placing stack of 1000 baht notes in front of TV although I think showing a bit of trust boosts boy's morale big time. From time to time I give agreed tip in advance or show him few notes under the Hong Thong bottle saying ' this is your tip for the morning' and those antics never were detrimental to a service performed. To test boy's reliability if in doubt I use 'change test" by sending him to 7/11 to buy toothbrush or 2 beers with 100 baht note. If upon return he hands change promptly I know I'm in good hands. If he doesn't , just in case, I sent him to the shower and in meantime remove some money from my pockets to the safe. Another off will be doubtful and breakfast invitation is rather out of question.

'adventure" to describe travelling with somebody we don't know or at least we did not travel with previously is very appropriate word. Travel, even in comfort , is somewhat testing and sometimes even relatives and close friends are showing side we did not know before, for both good and bad. It's why I advise to set limits and conditions carefully and lower expectations for the sake of world peace. Even something relatively trivial like waking hours in DivineMadman's example may be source of tension , on another hand having 24 hour / minus some free time for both of course / company of somebody we like and can cling to at almost any time is heavenly experience.

lucky you you weren't canned like those two unfortunate lesbians in Malaysia mentioned in another post recently

I learned that long time ago when doing family travels and ever since I don't have any problems of telling my travelling companion , whoever he is / relative , co-worker, friend, Thai boy / that travelling together doesn't mean eating together. I understand boys may hate farang food and I'd make every effort to accommodate them by finding them suitable place to eat but if there's nothing I fancy I wold leave them alone to eat , leave them money to pay for it and find other place for myself. If they find it rude , so be it but vacation time for me is too precious to spent it in the loo or even worse to fight an allergy / I'm allergic to certain sea foods and not taking any chances/. On another hand if I'm with boy I make sure I ask him very often if he is hungry or thirsty and don't mind if we need to make food stop even when I'm not in need, I want him to be happy and hungry men whatever age are happy not.

Getting him there for Thailand and return trip and off fee for time he will be removed from bar / massage is on you , that's sure thing. As for food, when you are dining and / or drinking together you will cover it. It may be time when you are busy and boy will be left alone then you should give him some reasonable stipend to cover meal and drink during that time. Or as an alternative you can give him daily stipend for his daytime costs and then it's up to him if he prefers to spend it or starve and save money. With shopping trips be careful what expectations are and be very clear what you cover and what you don't. My preferred course of action will be setting firm monetary or item limit i.e. boy pays for his items or you pay but up to determined amount or you buy him a jeans/ shoes / shirt , whatever but just that item. Otherwise you may be drained. Boy may be of independent mind and may want to pay his way dining or shopping, in such a case I'd find way of reasonable reimbursement, like parting bonus at end of trip / don't even mention an idea beforehand /. as for tip by every mean negotiate with him but since he will be spending most of day and whole night with you , long time tip plus all expenses above seems fair. After all you taking from him his earning potential , on another hand you give him vacations. Make sure his travel documents / passport or whatever he may require / are up to date. He may be coming from different culture than your own and speaks different language so be careful with your promises. If you say ' perhaps tomorrow we will go shopping" he may hear ' for sure tomorrow we will go shopping". as a template to consider you may use my adventures, all already described in my reports here : in 2015 I took Pattaya boy with me to Bangkok / his idea /. He suggested I will be free to take other boys so I even rented cheap but decent room for him in Sunflower Place near Nantra Silom . His daily stipend was 1000 and for nights we spent together he was to receive and additional 3000, we agreed that at least 2 out of 5 nights will be his, it turned even better so he did not spent much time in his room, LOL Two shopping trips were with firm limits and in first case he did not even reach it , in second he overspent a bit but it was reasonable. Few times I left him alone he asked me for money for steak , white wine or massage which I gave him / one should see his body ! / but I was of impression he did not spent it as intended, pocketing it instead. Only thing out of blue was suggestion at end of trip I gave him additional good bye tip- this was that second shopping trip. I was a bit upset with that so we parted on a bit sour note but in retrospect it was very good idea , that trip , not only he kept patiently his side of bargain but endearingly he suggested I pay him all his tips at end of trip so he can save money, smart as it gave him clear incentive to ask for food , etc money as we went about. But I like smart ideas , even if they are at my expense. Second case was in reverse , Bangkok boy taken for 2 nights to Pattaya , again his idea as well as proposal that he doesn't want any money , only to cover his off fee from the bar. Again he kept his side of bargain and his shopping ideas were very modest like 100 baht underwear or 200 baht jar of some fish preserve. Upon return he was clearly hesitant to take offered 7000 baht tip for that time but somehow I forced it upon him. Apologies for lengthy response but I got a call from work this morning not to show up today because power outage so have time to fill with pleasant tasks. Edit : I just noticed that DivineMadman also responded above at the same time so apologies if I repeated some of his ideas as I did not have a chance to read his post before posting mine.

Certainly you did not waste time in Pattaya. I feel jealous. Are you planning Bangkok extension from Beijing?

Public canning in 21 century ? How many lashes former prime minister should get for stealing all those billions from development fund ?

What? Hunk in Jomtien ? I need to re-evaluate my Pattaya visiting habits

and this priceless feeling when placing one's hand on boys thigh , just an inch below his underwear

I'd not be fast building up opinion based on one visit as things in venues are dynamic from day to day and sometimes from hour to hour.

perhaps has day time job somewhere else

nicely wrapped difference between residents and visitors. Having regulars is option not available to visitors like me so we may be inclined to pay more just not to miss an opportunity while resident may wait until his offer is accepted , if not today , day after tomorrow. I agree about most boys not being greedy if they sense possibility regular or even second encounter, they are not stupid and know that 1000 today and 1000 tomorrow is still more than say, 1700 right away. From my experience excessive tip requests are not out of greed , rather from some business acumen as they see spark in our eyes and think ' hey , he is horny , let's try"

I was always of opinion that main purpose of wallet is to make thieves lives easier, thank you for enforcement. In no country including my own I'd not keep plastic and money together. On another hand that guy was clearly prepared for the night of fun , 8000 baht is about right

most likely we did not want to wake up those who are known to wail that some are overtiping and spoiling market

what intrusion ? It's actually good if moderators involve themselves in discussion as it levels field i.e. you always know what we have to say but we don't know what's your opinion is. Universal Charter of Human Rights doesn't stop at moderators desk.

Wow, I'm impressed !

obviously you did not discover joys of travelling light yet

favorite drink of few hunky boys I offed so it may work

at least BTS is built properly with vision of being over the sea urban transport. Both Thailand and Bangkok may pay heavy price in future for concnetrating country development just on the capital city.

/ my underscore / Really ?, this would support theory about religious devotion to tipping. When visiting first time first thing for me would rather be checking how to get from airport to my hotel, best places to exchange money and then opening hours, admission price and way how to get to that place's most acclaimed attractions. I already mentioned it earlier , this discussion becomes too heated for what is worth and yes , I do tip but it's more afterthought that matter of doctoral thesis for me.

it only shows that at end of day military might succumbs to strong culture isn't it easier just pay price from the invoice only without an announcement about not tipping ?

I found that reducing number of passengers speeds turn around greatly. Imagine , 7 passengers are leaving aircraft by front door and at the same time outbound 5 are climbing stairs in the back, no need to clean aircraft and off we fly. I guess that idea was tested by Quantas in early nineties when I was flying Sydney-Melbourne in 747 with all of 19 passengers on board of economy / I counted /. Reason for such a waste was rule permitting Quantas to fly on internal flights only passengers with international ticket, 3 of us from Honolulu flight joined other 16 finishing their London-Sydney-Melbourne trip

I just noticed and it's too late to edit post , shop with good rates to the left of soi Twilight is Natty Gems , not Natty Games

it needs to be stressed loudly that while this is true- in Jun in fact I found that there were the best rates I saw in that trip everywhere, only booths on the airport's train station have such good rates. All other in the airport are using uniform rate , bit lower than train station ones although difference with city rates is not as bad as in some other countries. shop to the left of Family mart is Natty Games - pretty much my place if I need to change money in the city although their rates for other currencies than USD may not be that attractive which is also a case with gold shop in soi Thainya, another one with good rates on USD . I use ATM as last resort due to the same factor - fee on both ends and rate bit lower but if somebody has account without fees , it may be convenient. Another thing to consider when using ATM is limit on daily withdrawals one may have as well as one ATM may have for one transaction. As for leftover money I recently discovered that my blood pressure medicine is much cheaper in Thailand so I spent it in the airport's pharmacy and small change left is given to random cleaner . Can't envision having much more than 1000 something left over as I tend to change money frequently as need arises, 100 $ is one note and is more portable than say 3250 - 6 notes at least.