LOS Trip Report

[jimmie50]

4 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

That tour included the summer Palace at Bang Pa In

Summer Palace closed during covid, and has not re-opened.  Our guide, who has been doing this for 32 years, said she wasn't aware of any plans to open it again for tours.  Not sure what the lingering issues may be.  

[khaolakguy]

Although the interior of the Summer Palace itself is closed the extensive Summer Palace grounds are still open with their mix of architectures and landscaping and are still well worth visiting.

https://www.salahospitality.com/sala-stories/exploring-the-beauty-of-bang-pa-in-palace/

 

[jimmie50]

8 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

Summer Palace itself is closed

Thanks for clarifying that.  I should have been more specific.  Sorry for that.  

[jimmie50]

12 hours ago, jamiebee said:

where to go and what to do on my next trip

I would strongly recommend to go with a knowledgeable guide who is able to provide more details.  I had visited Ayutthaya once before with my Thai friends, but they really didn't know a lot about the history themselves.  I enjoyed this visit much more because the guide was able to provide the missing historical pieces.  

[thaiophilus]

22 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

Death railway is well worth the drive.  There is a small museum there which is very interesting. 

There are (were?) three museums in Kanchanaburi. In order of must-see-ness:

The Death Railway Museum and Research Centre in the centre of the town between the station and the war cemetery, is the largest and newest, well up to modern western museum standards and well worth a visit. 

The JEATH War Museum a little way downstream has photographs and illustrations of life in the camp, some made by the POWs, but is basically a one-monk project and badly underfunded, so don't expect too much.

The "other" JEATH museum, the "World War II and JEATH War Museum" next to the bridge, has a lot of miscellaneous WWII stuff and some miscellaneous stuff. According to Google it's temporarily closed.

[thaiophilus]

22 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

 

Edited October 28 by thaiophilus
Duplicate

[jimmie50]

Day 12 Kanchanaburi

Another early morning start.  Departure from Bangkok was 6:30am once again.  Everyone had to request a to go breakfast box and have luggage downstairs in the lobby by 6:15am so it could be loaded onto the bus.  Will be staying at Felix River Kwai Resort for the next two nights.  Tour Director said travel time would be around three hours to Kanchanaburi, and I believe most everyone slept for a big portion of that time.  Upon arrival we went to the Thailand-Burma Railway Center, and the War Cemetery where over 6000 prisoners of war were laid to rest.  I really don’t recall much from my history lessons about the impact of WW2 in this area.  Yes, I know there was a famous movie produced about the Bridge over the River Kwai, but I never watched it.  Walking through the museum exhibits and reading about how terrible the conditions were for the POW’s, I was curious why more isn’t said.  We are constantly reminded about the European front and how terrible the holocaust was, but you hear very little about the Asian front.  This stop was a bit of an eye-opener for me, and I want to learn more once I return to Denver.  After a couple of hours here, we traveled to see the infamously named Death Railway.  We had a delicious traditional Thai lunch at a restaurant near the train station.  After lunch we boarded a local train for a ride with gorgeous views over the river and a journey across wooden viaducts.  We rode the train for approximately 45-50 minutes before getting off.  Our coach was waiting to take us to see the famous bridge.  Had a chance to actually walk out on the bridge.  The resort is located just a short distance across the river.  Had a nice group dinner together to bring our day to a close.  Fortunately, no early departure tomorrow for the days activities.  Heard from all three of my young men today.  Think they were checking up on me.  lol.  Was actually surprised to hear from the first Grinder guy.  Don’t want to encourage him too much since I am really not interested.  Sam from Paradise was just checking in, and chatted a few times with Bee throughout the day.

[12is12]

I recommend watching the movie, impressive even 2day.

[jimmie50]

Day 13 Kanchanaburi

It seems there is some special event for high school students taking place in Kanchanaburi sponsored by a local university.  Not sure of the event purpose, but the students are from Bangkok and I am assuming they attend a private school with English being the main language.  Instructors were all native English speakers. This resort is quite large, so with the exception of breakfast this morning, we haven’t seen much of them.  There is a Convention Pavilion on the property which is where most of their activities are taking place.  Restaurant staff seemed slightly frazzled trying to deal with 100+ teenagers plus all of their regular guests.  Our out today is to Hellfire Pass. Both the museum/cemetery visit yesterday, and this trip to Hellfire Pass were very emotional. We heard the harrowing stories of how the 500-meter-long and 26-meter-deep section of rock was dug out by Prisoners of War using no more than picks, hammers and their bare hands. Exploring the Hellfire Pass Memorial Museum gave me cause for some serious reflection.  My father was in the army during World War II, and was stationed in the Philippines.  As I was looking at the exhibits and reading the stories, even though he was not a POW I stopped to think what if he had been captured and sent here.  Conditions were just horrific.  It really brought tears to my eyes.  It is quite a physical trek, about 70 meters down, but there is a well-built and maintained path.  Be aware it includes many sections of steep steps, however.  You also should come prepared with spray for the mosquitos.  They are quite abundant and very hungry.  Once on the trail, there are no restrooms available, no return services, and no water…so go prepared.  You need to plan for more than just one hour here…we spent probably three hours at the site before departing for lunch.  The museum and pass were actually built/developed by the Australian government.  They maintain the site, and even pay the salaries of workers.  We drove about 20 minutes from the Museum to a local restaurant for lunch of traditional Thai dishes: minced pork w/holy basil, chicken wings, shrimp in tamarind sauce, green vegetable and soup.  The shrimp dish and green vegetable are unique or special to this area of Thailand.  Soup was all vegetables in some sort of a tomato based broth, but not spicy at all.  After lunch we headed back to the river for a long tail boat ride enjoying the mountains and jungle scenery, ending with a taste of culture at Mon Tribal Village.  Busy day, but very satisfying as well.  Group had dinner together at the hotel restaurant…a very nice buffet dinner with a mix of Thai and Western (fried chicken nuggets and baked macaroni and cheese).  Depart for Sukhothai in the morning.  And, of course, been chatting with Bee.  Actually good the tour is keeping me so busy that it is serving as a distraction from not being able to see him again this trip.  ‘sigh’   Heard from Sam at Paradise again as well.  Kind of given up on the idea of anything with the cute bus attendant. He is always busy helping everyone and that's his job...I get it.  Once we are dropped off at the hotel, the bus, driver and attendant all disappear.  The only one we ever see around the hotel is the tour director until our pick up time the next day.  No idea where those two are actually eating and sleeping.  Besides...keeping my focus on Bee at the moment.  

[khaolakguy]

It sounds a very well-organised and thorough tour.

[Keithambrose]

On 10/28/2025 at 5:21 PM, 12is12 said:

I recommend watching the movie, impressive even 2day.

Except for Hollywood  insisting on an American, William Holden,  being inserted into the plot, and being given lead billing!

[jimmie50]

Day 14 Sukhothai

Another early morning start.  Our tour director has warned us that today will be a long travel day, as it will take approximately 6 hours to reach Sukhothai.  This does not include stops along the way.  First stop on our journey was at a roadside stand selling sticky rice, but unlike any other I have had in Thailand before.  This was sweetened with coconut milk and sugar, mixed with taro or beans, and pressed into a piece of bamboo about 12-15 inches long.  They used black or purple rice, and cook the rice in the bamboo over charcoal fire for around 90 minutes.  Once the sticky rice is removed from the fire, the use a pick or hatchet to split open the bamboo.  Using a spoon you eat the sticky rice directly from the bamboo.  Very different texture from mango sticky rice, and this is always warm as you eating it coming directly from the charcoal.  It was really quite delicious.  Next stop was a visit to Bhutsaya Khiri Suvarnabhumi, also known as the Rock Buddha.  This is an old mining area that was no longer used and a monk convinced the government to give the land to allow a temple and seated buddha to be built. The project was started in 2014 and completed in 2019.  It was quite impressive to see, as was the accompanying elevated viewing walkway.  The engineering required to build the walkway was fascinating.  Next stop was at Kamphaeng Phet Historical Park, which I believe is a UNESCO site. During the Sukhothai Kingdom, this city was known as Chakangrao and was an important part of the defense system for the kingdom.  Next stop was lunch at a nice garden restaurant ‘off the beaten path’ so to speak, with some traditional but different dishes than we have had previously.  After lunch, another two hours on the bus before arriving at our hotel in Sukhothai.  A good day, but kind of travel weary.  Looking forward to a good nights sleep after our group dinner.  Had a nice chat with Bee online before turning in for the evening.

[jimmie50]

17 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

It sounds a very well-organised and thorough tour.

I have done a number of tours over the years with Trafalgar and really enjoyed them.  All of my previous tours were in Europe.  I haven't done a tour since COVID, so wasn't sure what to expect this time.  You never know what adjustments or changes they made and decided to keep after COVID that could possibly create a different experience.  So far, I am very pleased with the service.  Accommodations have all been excellent, food has been traditional and delicious with a wide variety, and the daily excursions/activities have been fun as well as informative.  I would certainly do it again.  

[vinapu]

You will like Sukhothai treasures , I was there in beginning of 2024 and ever since think of returning to explore more.

Banana pancake in night market along archeological zone main drag was delicious and cheap at 30 baht.

some pics in my trip report here, page 2 and 3 :

https://www.gayguides.com/topic/41442-better-to-be-retired-than-retarded-thailand-and-cambodia-in-january-2024-trip-report-brief-but-long/page/3/

 

[Travelingguy]

This is a great trip report. I am really enjoying it. 

[jimmie50]

Day 15 Sukhothai

I had never heard of Sukhothai before this trip, nor really knew much about the history of Thailand.  Sukhothai is known as the birthplace of Thai civilization.  Our day started with a visit to the UNESCO listed Sukhothai Historical Park where we had a chance to explore the centuries old temples and palace ruins.  One interesting fact to me was that prior to Buddhism, many people were actually Hindu and you can see a mixture of both Hinduism and Buddhism in many of the old temples.  Under royal patronage, Buddhism flourished and many impressive monasteries were constructed of brick covered with carved stucco.

The Kingdom of Sukhothai is credited with the invention and development of many of the unique identifying characteristics of Siamese (Thai) culture, many of them attributed directly to the kingdom’s most famous and beloved King Ramkhamhaeng, who is considered the Founding Father of the Thai Nation.  Stone inscriptions found at the sites provided evidence of the earliest examples of Thai writing and gave a detailed account of the economy, religion, social organization and governance of the Sukhothai Kingdom.

The area of Sukhothai was also home to accomplished innovators in hydraulic engineering. They modified the landscape of the kingdom in such a way that water was dammed; reservoirs, ponds and canals were constructed; flooding controlled; and water was brought to serve a variety of agricultural, economic and ritual functions as well as to provide the towns’ inhabitants with water for their daily lives and protection in the form of city moats. From that day onwards, the kings of Thailand have been acknowledged for their ability to control the kingdom’s water.  The Sukhothai Kingdom was known as a prosperous time and place, and in Thai history has often been referred to as a Golden Age, The Happiness of Thai, or The Dawn of Happiness.  I highly recommend a visit to this area.

We followed up our visit to the Historical Park with a foodie adventure…Thai Cooking Class.  We went to the Baan Suan Suda Cooking School where our host gave us a tour of their garden with homegrown herbs, vegetables and fruits.  Next we sorted out the different ingredients we would need to prepare our dishes getting to experience the Thai version of farm to table.  At the conclusion we were able to feast on the amazing dishes we prepared: Sweet/Sour Chicken, Cashew Chicken, Chicken Green Curry, Stir-fried Morning Glory, and Pad Thai.  We finished off with fresh fruit from the garden called Thai Lamoot…something new to me.

After lunch we had two hours to relax in our rooms or around the hotel swimming pool before meeting to attend Sukhothai Loy Krathong Festival.  With roots going back over 700 years, this ancient festival honors the water goddess and carries deep cultural meaning. A unique part of the celebration is Phao Thian Len Fai— the lighting of candles and fireworks displays as well as various forms of live entertainment. I assume this tradition must be a part of Thai identity and cultural pride, similar to the festivals scheduled to take place in Bangkok (Light Show) and Pattaya (Fireworks).  Celebrations have been toned down somewhat due to the passing of the Queen Mother, so there were no fireworks displays, but plenty of candle lighting and other light displays.  We saw intricate krathonhs, sky lanterns and even historical recreations from King Ramkhamhaeng’s era.  Enjoyed many different types of food from street vendors for dinner.  Continue to communicate with Paradise Sam and boyfriend Bee on a daily basis.  Just taking things slowly, day by day...see where it goes.  

[mauRICE]

6 hours ago, jimmie50 said:

We finished off with fresh fruit from the garden called Thai Lamoot…something new to me.

 

It's ละมุด (lamood) or sapodilla, a tropical fruit known commonly as chiku in Malaysia and other parts of Southeast Asia. The evergreen tree, which also produces chicle the latex used to make chewing gum, was originally brought over from Mexico and Central America to the Philippines by the Spaniards. I have a tree back home right beside the soursop (I bet you don't know that one either!), both of which are popular with the squirrels and an annoying woodpecker (at least I think it's a woodpecker). The birds, squirrels and civet cats get to enjoy the papayas, bananas, custard apples, chikus, soursop, mangoes and rose apples in my garden before I do! 😅

[mauRICE]

7 hours ago, jimmie50 said:

The Kingdom of Sukhothai is credited with the invention and development of many of the unique identifying characteristics of Siamese (Thai) culture, many of them attributed directly to the kingdom’s most famous and beloved King Ramkhamhaeng, who is considered the Founding Father of the Thai Nation.  Stone inscriptions found at the sites provided evidence of the earliest examples of Thai writing and gave a detailed account of the economy, religion, social organization and governance of the Sukhothai Kingdom.   

The area of Sukhothai was also home to accomplished innovators in hydraulic engineering. They modified the landscape of the kingdom in such a way that water was dammed; reservoirs, ponds and canals were constructed; flooding controlled; and water was brought to serve a variety of agricultural, economic and ritual functions as well as to provide the towns’ inhabitants with water for their daily lives and protection in the form of city moats. From that day onwards, the kings of Thailand have been acknowledged for their ability to control the kingdom’s water.  The Sukhothai Kingdom was known as a prosperous time and place, and in Thai history has often been referred to as a Golden Age, The Happiness of Thai, or The Dawn of Happiness.  

@jimmie50 Thank you for the trip reports. It's probably an oversight on your part but I'm sure you'd like to give credit to the Unesco website where you "borrowed" the above two paragraphs from word for word. Out of curiosity, have your guides mentioned the strong Khmer influence in early Thai history? I'm wondering whether such things are being censored in the current climate.

[jimmie50]

On 11/2/2025 at 12:17 AM, mauRICE said:

It's probably an oversight on your part but I'm sure you'd like to give credit to the Unesco website where you "borrowed" the above two paragraphs from word for word. Out of curiosity, have your guides mentioned the strong Khmer influence in early Thai history? I'm wondering whether such things are being censored in the current climate.

LOL.  Didn't realize I was required to site sources on this site.  Really too much information at this point and trying to remember everything is nearly impossible.  Feeling like I need to order a book on history of Thailand once I return home to do further investigation.  The guides have talked about the Khmer influence, so I would say nothing is being filtered, but cannot be 100% sure they are only providing basics.  I believe they are being very thorough.  I'm just on information overload at this point, plus the fact I am tired and running out of steam.  Memory isn't what it used to be, so often need to refer back to online info to fill in the gaps.  

[jimmie50]

On 11/1/2025 at 10:24 PM, mauRICE said:

It's ละมุด (lamood) or sapodilla

Thanks for the info.  As I said, I had never heard of it or tasted it before but really enjoyed it.  Not sure if it is available at Asian markets in the US or not, but will need to look for it.  So far, this is the only place it has been offered.  Most places they have an ample supply of watermelon, pineapple, cantaloupe and dragon fruit, but have not found the lamood again. 

[jimmie50]

Day ??? - Update

Good morning.  Am just running out of steam and have decided to finish the trip report once I return to Denver the end of this week. Really just physically exhausted, and emotionally drained.  Been in a funk the last couple of days with lots of mixed emotions and some disappointment as well.  Two days ago, during one of our daily exchange of messages, Bee mentioned he was going to be short on his rent for November.  I know, I know…everyone else probably saw this coming.  Initially I had expected some sort of plea for financial assistance, but it never came, so I guess I was overly optimistic that there might be more to this.  Anyway, I asked how much he needed and he said 5000 Baht.  I agreed to deposit the money into his bank account so that he could pay his rent.  Didn’t mind, really, and just being me…even added an extra 5000 to the deposit.  So, all total was 10,000 Baht.  Keep in mind he had only asked for 5000, so being overly generous is totally on me.  Then yesterday, a message about how low his salary is at the bank and how many financial obligations he has, plus the need to support his parents, etc. - you get the general idea by now.  His remedy to the dire financial situation is that I could send him a monthly stipend of 1000 USD!!!   As I said, I was half expecting this early on before getting too emotionally invested.  Basically just told him I was retired, on a fixed income, and not interested in such an arrangement unless we were actually a couple living together with shared expenses.  No reply yet to what would amount to a flat out refusal of his request.  Will see what transpires next, but definitely not sending any more money to him, and really am very disappointed to learn it was nothing more than a game to him and all about the money.  Thus…my funky mood.   Meeting Woody this morning from Siam Roads, so hopefully he will be able to brighten my spirits a bit…think I will have him set me up for a massage at his shop today with some cute guy to take my mind off the negative feelings.  Everyone here had warned me to be careful, so it wasn't a total shock, but still...

[zoomomancs]

44 minutes ago, jimmie50 said:

 

 

You were generous. In these countries where the minimum wage is $12 a day, or whatever, I have this conflict all the time about whether to help or is it a story they are telling me. We do what we can.

[jimmie50]

As a follow-up to my most recent update, Bee shared when asking for support that he also works part time after bank hours at two different massage shops...one in Sathorn and the other Surawong.  I believe they were owned by the same person and they just send him to the shop where he is needed the most.  No judgement about that...realize he is doing what he needs to do in order to support himself and his parents.  Just filled with mixed emotions.  

[Marc308]

Jimmie, Welcome to the world. Most of us on this site have experienced similar emotions and faced similar disappointments. I have known one guy in Pattaya for 15 years (gulp) and of course he became a kind of friend. Yes he does have a good heart and is very kind. But I never could tell when his "emergencies" were real or imagined. It's an awful feeling not knowing if you are being played or whether there is true need. On some occasions I admit that I succumbed and sent off the money (without any expectations of repayment). On other occasions I stood firm and gave him the usual "sorry I don't have any extra money this month". Finally the drama got to be just too much, and the last time I was in Thailand, I told him I thought we should go our separate ways -- that I would always consider him a friend and will always have affection for him, but that I was his friend not his ATM. 

Bottom line: Human emotions are not completely rational and I will always have a soft spot in my heart for him. 

[vinapu]

I believe you opened pandora box by voluntarily doubling his stated need and giving him 10 K instead of 5 K. Reading of this was that yo obviously awash with money. Cherish you memories of Bee but sooner you disconnect him  the better. You may feel bad for a while but your wallet will   be grateful.

If it any consolation many of us here fell into similar kind of trap to a certain degree. 

You not first and certainly not last to fell into this kind of trap, time to repeat old adages ' most expensive sex is free one' and   " if you want love in Thailand , rent it".

Enjoy rest of you time in Thailand and make sure not to respond to ANY messages from Bee.