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Federal Lawsuit Filed Against Atlanta Police over Raid at Gay Club
 
Atlanta, Georgia (CNN) --
 
A federal lawsuit was filed Tuesday against Atlanta police over a September raid at a gay club, on behalf of 19 patrons who say they were forcibly searched and detained.
 
The suit, filed by the gay-rights group Lambda Legal, names Atlanta Police Chief Richard Pennington and 48 officers who were at the Atlanta Eagle bar the night of September 10.
 
"The Atlanta Police Department dispatched about 20 to 30 officers to the Atlanta Eagle, including its 'Red Dog' unit dressed in SWAT team gear," according to a statement from Lambda Legal. "But inside the bar, the APD found no public sex, no drugs or illegal weapons." No patrons were charged with any crime, the organization said.
 
During the raid, patrons were made to lie face down on the floor while background checks were run on everyone, the statement said. "Eagle bar patrons heard anti-gay slurs; were forced to lay in spilled beer and broken glass; and one was forced to lie on the floor even though he had injured his back in the Iraq War."
 
Some of the patrons were restrained with handcuffs, and officers used excessive force, including shoving some people to the floor and kicking others on the floor, the lawsuit says. Authorities searched everyone on the property, seizing their driver's licenses or other identification, the suit says.
 
"These actions were taken without particularized reasonable suspicion or probable cause to believe that any individual patron, let alone every person at the establishment, was involved in criminal activity whatsoever," said the suit, filed in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia.
 
Atlanta City Attorney Roger Bhandari said in a statement Monday that the city had not been served with the suit or had an opportunity to review it, so he would not comment. Bhandari's office told CNN on Tuesday that its response was the same, as it had not seen the suit.
 
The only charges filed were against Eagle employees, for allegedly violating the city's law about unlicensed adult entertainment "because four dancers were observed, in the words of the arresting officers, allegedly 'wearing underwear' and 'dancing,' " the lawsuit said.
 
"Imagine if the police walked into a Wal-Mart and see someone shoplifting, and because they see what they think is a crime taking place in Wal-Mart, they take everyone at Wal-Mart, throw them on the floor, spread their legs, put their hands in their pockets, take their IDs, put their name in the computer, simply because they're out of place or someone else may or may not be doing something wrong," co-counsel Daniel Grossman said at a news conference Tuesday.
 
The suit seeks damages and alleges that police violated the patrons' constitutional rights and that the individual officers committed false imprisonment, assault, battery and trespassing. It also requests a jury trial.
 
"The illegal activity going on in the Atlanta Eagle that night was committed by the APD," Greg Nevins, supervising senior staff attorney in Lambda Legal's southern regional office, based in Atlanta, said in the statement. "If it is APD procedure for elderly men and wounded veterans to be thrown to the floor and harassed simply for being in a bar having a drink after work, then APD should change its procedures."
 
"People have asked me why I'm doing this," plaintiff Geoffrey Calhoun told reporters. "I'm not doing it because I have a vendetta against the police. I work for a police department. I'm an emergency communications officer. I do my part to make sure these officers go home. I don't work for the city of Atlanta.
 
"I was in the bar drinking beer, playing a video game, and I was dehumanized and humiliated and laid on the floor for no reason," he said. "That's why I'm doing it."
 
The suit alleges undercover officers entered the bar before 11 p.m. and had a drink, then later "began screaming at patrons and employees to 'hit the floor' and get down on the ground."
 
"Several plaintiffs were in terror and feared for their lives, believing that the Eagle was being robbed or invaded by criminals or gay-bashers who might kill or injure them," the suit continues.
 
Other officers came in, including the "Red Dog Unit," a special force that provides "aggressive police presence" in areas with high drug use, the suit said, citing the Atlanta Police Web site. Many of the officers in that unit were wearing black, paramilitary-style clothing not immediately recognizable as police uniforms, the suit says.
 
While lying on the floor, some people asked permission to move away from the broken glass and were told to "stay down and shut the [expletive] up," the suit alleges. In all, they lay on the floor for 30 minutes to more than two hours, as they were released one by one or in small groups, the suit says.
 
Those who asked questions were also told to shut up, threatened with arrest for disorderly conduct or "threatened with violence and physical harm," the suit says. "Some were retaliated against by being forced to remain at the Eagle long after they had been searched.
 
"All persons at the Eagle complied fully, promptly and peacefully with all demands made by the officers, no person at the Eagle offered any physical resistance to the officers whatsoever, and none was charged with obstructing the officers in any way," the suit says.
 
Police have said that if they go into a bar, it is procedure to have patrons lie on the floor and be searched, and everyone's identification is taken and checked, Nevins told reporters.
 
"They didn't say this the night of the Eagle raid ... this happened like a month later," he said of the police comments. "They had plenty of time to figure out all the facts, and they knew they were going to be meeting with the media, and it was ultimately recorded, and they specifically went on record and said, 'This is what we always do, this is standard operating procedure,' and that's what makes this case so outlandish."

For simply holding a bank account for deposit and withdrawal purposes, I think just about any Thai bank will do, so you might as well go with one of the recommendations above.  K-Bank seems to be getting the most votes.
 
I have an account with K-Bank too.  All of these banks offer online banking.  When I opened my K-Bank account, they arranged for my online banking right then and there.  They told me the account would be accessible online in about three hours.  By the time I arrived home, about forty minutes later, my online banking was already in place.
 
If you have online banking, you can check your account from any computer.  However, if you wish to do any transactions online, then you must have a Thai mobile phone.  When doing most types of transactions, these banks will send an OTP (One Time Password) to your mobile phone.  You cannot do a transaction without that OTP, which is why you would need a Thai mobile phone number.  Of course, you can also do most transactions at ATMs without a mobile phone, but other than withdrawing money, it would have to be an ATM for your bank. 
 
One convenience is at ATMs or via online banking, you can top-up your mobile phone.  All of these banks offer top-ups at 50 baht increments, starting with a minimum of 50 baht on up to 1500 baht.
 
Until recently, most Thai banks were charging a 20 baht fee for withdrawing money at ATMs other than their own.  Lately, I have not been charged that fee even when withdrawing money from another bank's ATM.
 
Also, many of these banks permit transactions or just checking your account via your mobile phone.  Having a smartphone or iPhone with internet access is a big help.
 
If you anticipate that your future needs will require additional services, you might want to check to see which banks offer what you'll eventually need.  For example, many expats receive pension funds via direct deposit, which means you would need a Thai bank that has a branch in your home country.  As far as I know, Bangkok Bank has more international branches than any other Thai banks.  For their listing see:  http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/InternationalNetwork/InternationalBranches/Pages/default.aspx
 
To the best of my knowledge:
 
Kasikorn Bank has a branch in Los Angeles, but not in any other western countries.
 
Siam Commercial Bank has a branch in Hong Kong.
 
Bank of Ayudhya has a branch in Vientiane.

Everything in your post is incorrect - starting with a cross-ban policy.  That's not quite the way it worked.  I won't say anything more about that aspect of it.  I've already said I was wrong to do it, but I'm not going to spend the rest of my life apologizing either.  Please let me know if you've never done anything in your life that you later regretted and wished you had never done.
 
As for banning people, there are many ways to do it.  The only time I've ever used IP addresses for banning purposes was trying to put a stop to the phony Russian bot registration attempts.  I banned the IP addresses from those sources, but have since figured out other methods and stopped using IP addresses entirely.  That's because "collateral damage" started happening when that method was also causing legitimate board members to inadvertently become banned.
 
As for the other methods, sorry - you'll just have to take my word for it.  I don't see any reason to post "trade secrets" that might help people intended to be banned figure out ways around it.  Obviously people can simply register again under a new name.  If people really want to be part of a board where they're not wanted, that's their choice.

Everything in your post is incorrect - starting with a cross-ban policy.  That's not quite the way it worked.  I won't say anything more about that aspect of it.  I've already said I was wrong to do it, but I'm not going to spend the rest of my life apologizing either.  Please let me know if you've never done anything in your life that you later regretted and wished you had never done.
 
As for banning people, there are many ways to do it.  The only time I've ever used IP addresses for banning purposes was trying to put a stop to the phony Russian bot registration attempts.  I banned the IP addresses from those sources, but have since figured out other methods and stopped using IP addresses entirely.  That's because "collateral damage" started happening when that method was also causing legitimate board members to inadvertently become banned.
 
As for the other methods, sorry - you'll just have to take my word for it.  I don't see any reason to post "trade secrets" that might help people intended to be banned figure out ways around it.  Obviously people can simply register again under a new name.  If people really want to be part of a board where they're not wanted, that's their choice.

I have no idea.  There are many more Russians and Middle Easterners coming to Pattaya than ever before, but I have never had a problem with any of them.  That's not to say others haven't had problems, but so far none of them have been any kind of problem for me at all.
 
In any case, if there is a city I dislike, then I don't go to that city.  Some complain consistently about Pattaya, and yet many of the complainers come to Pattaya and often Pattaya is the only city in Thailand they go to.  I see posts regularly - "I don't like the beach."  "I don't like the restaurants."  "I don't like the traffic."  "I don't like the baht buses." "I don't like the bars."  "I don't like the boys." "I don't like the farang."  It goes on and on - "I don't like this.  I don't like that."  And many are sure to say, "And I especially don't like Gaybutton."
 
Ok, again - for those who dislike Pattaya so much, then why come to Pattaya?  Seems like an easy decision to me - if you don't like Pattaya, go somewhere else.

It is valid only if you are also carrying a valid driving license from your home country. You are required to have both.
 
People can say what they want, but I learned a long time ago - if you drive in Thailand, you might as well expect to periodically be a victim of these scams. You can raise hell, use flawless logic, prove you are correct about the law, prove you did nothing wrong, or anything else you want to try. You know where it will get you? Nowhere. You're not going to get out of it and if anything, you'll only make things worse. Do what you want, but my advice is just pay it and go on and don't even try to argue about it.
 
You're either going to have to accept it as part of living in Thailand or, if you can't, then you're better off following painai's advice and refrain from driving in Thailand at all.
 
That's just the way things are, folks.

None of these stories come as any surprise to me. The surprise would be when things go smoothly. We've illustrated the point many times over the years in various posts about how if you go to one bank and don't get the answer you want, just go to another branch of the same bank and you're almost certain to get an entirely different answer.
 
The most glaring example that comes to mind was the story a few years back about the farang who was going to take a trip to Laos. He held a retirement visa and went to immigration to buy a reentry permit. He was told that a trip to Laos does not require a reentry permit.
 
Off he went - without the permit. About two months after he returned he went to immigration to submit the 90-day address report. They told him he has overstayed his visa by more than a month and will have to pay the fine. That's when it was made clear to him that the information given to him was wrong and not only has he lost his retirement visa, but also has to pay the fine for the number of days he's overstayed.
 
Those were the days before you could get a retirement visa with only the 30-day privilege. He ended up having to pay the fine, leave Thailand and go to Singapore, get a new tourist visa, return to Thailand, and start the process all over again to get the retirement visa. By the time he was done, it had all cost him hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
 
Meanwhile, when he was told that he had lost his retirement visa because he didn't have a reentry permit he went to speak with the chief of the immigration office. He was told that the immigration officer was mistaken and there were several other farang in the same position, but the law is the law and they can't do anything to help him even though they knew he had been given erroneous information by their own officer.
 
Welcome to Thailand - That's just the way things are here. It can be very frustrating, for sure, but if you're going to live here you have two choices: One is to get frustrated and angry. The other is to accept that this is the way it works here and sooner or later (probably sooner) you're going to run into these kinds of problems.
 
As for Michael's monitor screen - I learned a long time ago not to give a deposit for anything around here. If one store doesn't have it, I'll look for it in another store. If I still can't find it, I'll do without whatever it is. But as soon as you hand over any money, if something goes wrong - even if it's their fault and they admit it's their fault - good luck ever getting any of it back.

I'm going to try the beer cheese bread recipe soon. As for the bagels being hard to make, try it once and see. I find it very simple and easy to do. There's a little more to it than putting ingredients into the bread machine, turning it on, and waiting, but there's really nothing to it. And they sure come out good.

None of these stories come as any surprise to me. The surprise would be when things go smoothly. We've illustrated the point many times over the years in various posts about how if you go to one bank and don't get the answer you want, just go to another branch of the same bank and you're almost certain to get an entirely different answer.
 
The most glaring example that comes to mind was the story a few years back about the farang who was going to take a trip to Laos. He held a retirement visa and went to immigration to buy a reentry permit. He was told that a trip to Laos does not require a reentry permit.
 
Off he went - without the permit. About two months after he returned he went to immigration to submit the 90-day address report. They told him he has overstayed his visa by more than a month and will have to pay the fine. That's when it was made clear to him that the information given to him was wrong and not only has he lost his retirement visa, but also has to pay the fine for the number of days he's overstayed.
 
Those were the days before you could get a retirement visa with only the 30-day privilege. He ended up having to pay the fine, leave Thailand and go to Singapore, get a new tourist visa, return to Thailand, and start the process all over again to get the retirement visa. By the time he was done, it had all cost him hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
 
Meanwhile, when he was told that he had lost his retirement visa because he didn't have a reentry permit he went to speak with the chief of the immigration office. He was told that the immigration officer was mistaken and there were several other farang in the same position, but the law is the law and they can't do anything to help him even though they knew he had been given erroneous information by their own officer.
 
Welcome to Thailand - That's just the way things are here. It can be very frustrating, for sure, but if you're going to live here you have two choices: One is to get frustrated and angry. The other is to accept that this is the way it works here and sooner or later (probably sooner) you're going to run into these kinds of problems.
 
As for Michael's monitor screen - I learned a long time ago not to give a deposit for anything around here. If one store doesn't have it, I'll look for it in another store. If I still can't find it, I'll do without whatever it is. But as soon as you hand over any money, if something goes wrong - even if it's their fault and they admit it's their fault - good luck ever getting any of it back.

I was in Central Festival, Pattaya today. On the third floor, just outside the entrance to the main department store, a set of small appliances were being sold, one of which was a bread machine. That may be the only one. I checked the kitchenware department on their 5th floor and didn't see any others.
 
This one was being sold new, at 4550 baht. At that price, it's an absolute steal. If you or anyone else still wants a bread machine, I'd get over there and grab it - fast - before it's gone.

The dent is caused by the mixing blade. Maybe somebody will eventually come up with a different technology, but without the blade, there is no way to mix the ingredients and knead the dough. It doesn't bother me because it extends only about ¼ inch into the bread.
 
Regarding salt, most recipes call for between 1 to 1½ teaspoons of salt. My instruction booklet says the salt is used primarily to stop the rising process. Besides, the latest medical information says now salt is not dangerous to your health after all. Even so, 1½ teaspoons of salt distributed over an entire loaf of bread - I don't think there would be enough to worry about in a slice or two. In any case, the amount of salt used in home-made bread is very likely far less than the amount of salt used in commercial loaves.
 
The bread machine is another one of those things that I saw no particular use for until I had one. Now I wouldn't want to be without it. It's best, though, if you also have an oven. If you want to make things like bagels, baguettes, etc, the bread machine will knead and prepare the dough, but you would still need an oven to bake those sorts of things. But for loaves, the bread machine does the whole thing. All you have to do is put in the ingredients, turn on the bread machine, and a little less than 4 hours later, there's your loaf.
 
The only other tip I can think of at the moment is some recipes that call for baking in an oven instead of the bread machine, the recipe says to use a greased baking sheet. I used to to that, but I didn't like it because the oven tends to french fry the bottom of the loaf - at least when I do it. I've never found a way to avoid that. So, I don't use a greased baking sheet at all. Instead I use baking parchment. For 279 baht you can get a 50m roll of it at Makro. For me, that's enough to last at least two years or more - and you don't have to grease it.

I've been using bread machines ever since they first came out. I haven't bought commercial breads in years.
 
One further tip: In most recipes, make sure you're using bread flour, not all purpose flour. It does make a significant difference.
 
A second tip: If a recipe gives you a choice between making a large loaf or a small loaf, I always make the small loaf. You might have to make the bread more often, but with use of the timer, I think it's worth doing - nothing like waking up to the odor of a fresh, hot loaf of bread baking . . .
 
A third tip: If you don't like the "dent" made by the mixing blade, when the bread is ready to begin its final rise, remove the dough, take out the blade, and replace the dough. Now you won't have the "dent." I almost never do that, though. The "dent" doesn't bother me.

The dent is caused by the mixing blade. Maybe somebody will eventually come up with a different technology, but without the blade, there is no way to mix the ingredients and knead the dough. It doesn't bother me because it extends only about ¼ inch into the bread.
 
Regarding salt, most recipes call for between 1 to 1½ teaspoons of salt. My instruction booklet says the salt is used primarily to stop the rising process. Besides, the latest medical information says now salt is not dangerous to your health after all. Even so, 1½ teaspoons of salt distributed over an entire loaf of bread - I don't think there would be enough to worry about in a slice or two. In any case, the amount of salt used in home-made bread is very likely far less than the amount of salt used in commercial loaves.
 
The bread machine is another one of those things that I saw no particular use for until I had one. Now I wouldn't want to be without it. It's best, though, if you also have an oven. If you want to make things like bagels, baguettes, etc, the bread machine will knead and prepare the dough, but you would still need an oven to bake those sorts of things. But for loaves, the bread machine does the whole thing. All you have to do is put in the ingredients, turn on the bread machine, and a little less than 4 hours later, there's your loaf.
 
The only other tip I can think of at the moment is some recipes that call for baking in an oven instead of the bread machine, the recipe says to use a greased baking sheet. I used to to that, but I didn't like it because the oven tends to french fry the bottom of the loaf - at least when I do it. I've never found a way to avoid that. So, I don't use a greased baking sheet at all. Instead I use baking parchment. For 279 baht you can get a 50m roll of it at Makro. For me, that's enough to last at least two years or more - and you don't have to grease it.

In Pattaya, they used to carry bread machines on the top floor of Central Festival, but I think they stopped carrying them. You might as well have a look. That is the only place in Pattaya I've ever seen them for sale.
 
I bought mine on the top floor of the Pargon in Bangkok. I paid 9000 baht for it there. Naturally, after I had already bought it, that's when I spotted them at Central Festival. Same make and model as mine was being sold there for nearly 3000 baht less than I paid in Bangkok.
 
In Pattaya, I've seen bread mixes at Makro, Villa Market, and Foodland, but I don't buy them. It's so simple to use "regular" ingredients and there is a wide variety of flours available in Pattaya as well as yeast. Do a Google search for bread machine recipes and hundreds and hundreds will come up. I use my bread machine to make everything from rye bread to baguettes and bagels.
 
I have no idea where to buy the kind of coffee machine you're looking for. If nobody else knows, you might ask the managers at some of the restaurants and coffee shops where they got theirs.
 
I have a few bread machine recipes on my board.
 
http://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5148
 
http://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4618
 
http://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3841
 
http://www.gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3535

And I will continue to do so. Of course I haven't been "dragged into court." That's because I get rid of those kinds of posts and get rid of those who would submit those kinds of posts. If I didn't, I might have been "dragged into court" a long time ago. I have yet to ever see a post so essential that it's worth taking a risk. I don't want those kinds of posts on my board in the first place.
 
I'll agree the chances are quite remote that it would ever happen, but it's very easy for someone who would be under no risk whatsoever to tell a board owner that he should take the risk, and take it on the basis that no board owner has thus far been dragged into court.
 
Michael is correct. So far none of the gay Thailand board owners have been "dragged into court." On my board, I'm going to keep it that way. Very sorry if you don't like that, but you're welcome to start your own board and take all the risks you want while you're singing to your own hymn sheet.

And I will continue to do so. Of course I haven't been "dragged into court." That's because I get rid of those kinds of posts and get rid of those who would submit those kinds of posts. If I didn't, I might have been "dragged into court" a long time ago. I have yet to ever see a post so essential that it's worth taking a risk. I don't want those kinds of posts on my board in the first place.
 
I'll agree the chances are quite remote that it would ever happen, but it's very easy for someone who would be under no risk whatsoever to tell a board owner that he should take the risk, and take it on the basis that no board owner has thus far been dragged into court.
 
Michael is correct. So far none of the gay Thailand board owners have been "dragged into court." On my board, I'm going to keep it that way. Very sorry if you don't like that, but you're welcome to start your own board and take all the risks you want while you're singing to your own hymn sheet.

This evening I was in Sunee Plaza, but only for a short while. I did not enter any of the bars, but I did notice that Happy Bar is open again.
 
Also, Look Bar is now a thing of the past. I don't know whether it was sold or simply changed hands, but it definitely has a new name. Now it's called Playboys.
 
As you may know, Look Bar was recently raided. Now it has a new name. It is not uncommon for bars to be raided, get forcibly shut down, and then quickly reopen under a new name. I am only guessing, but I have a feeling that may account for the demise of Look Bar and the opening of Playboys Bar.