farangyai

I suspect there are quite a few of us in similar situations as you describe(caring for aging relatives, downsizing our own home, possibly relocating, and planning for our own imminent retirement).  I feel free when I am in Thailand and part of me wants to spend more time there and part of me wonders how I would handle the frustrations I think I would have with the "Thai way". I find myself getting antsy for my own culture after about two months.
 
Another thought is thinking further down the road when I won't be able to (or want to) travel as easily.  I started a topic under THE BEER BAR to see if other members have comments.

I think all of the common sense points in the article could have been made without resorting to targetting the mystery expats.  It left me with a view of the writer as a bit uncouth and having some of the same cynical flavor as those expats he accuses, targets or describes. I don't know the reasoning behind the writer's approach.  Was it to try to distinguish between the mystery expats and the new fabs for his desired Thai readers?  Was it to blow off steam after being targetted by the mystery expats? Was it a clumsy attempt to contrast between old and new for literary excitement and journalistic sensationalism to get someone to read the articles?
  Whatever the reason, I think all would have been better served for the author to have taken the high road and not stooped to the level of throwing mud at others and then doing it again in this forum.
  Contrary to what the writer thinks, there are many forum readers that have a much more balanced view of Thailand, it's people and it's customs than they let on. They have pictures to post, stories to tell, advice to give, experiences to share that provide enjoyable reading. The nattering nabobs of negativism just talk louder or use bigger font. So my suggestion to the magazine writer/editor is to be above the fray, not part of it.

I think all of the common sense points in the article could have been made without resorting to targetting the mystery expats.  It left me with a view of the writer as a bit uncouth and having some of the same cynical flavor as those expats he accuses, targets or describes. I don't know the reasoning behind the writer's approach.  Was it to try to distinguish between the mystery expats and the new fabs for his desired Thai readers?  Was it to blow off steam after being targetted by the mystery expats? Was it a clumsy attempt to contrast between old and new for literary excitement and journalistic sensationalism to get someone to read the articles?
  Whatever the reason, I think all would have been better served for the author to have taken the high road and not stooped to the level of throwing mud at others and then doing it again in this forum.
  Contrary to what the writer thinks, there are many forum readers that have a much more balanced view of Thailand, it's people and it's customs than they let on. They have pictures to post, stories to tell, advice to give, experiences to share that provide enjoyable reading. The nattering nabobs of negativism just talk louder or use bigger font. So my suggestion to the magazine writer/editor is to be above the fray, not part of it.

I think all of the common sense points in the article could have been made without resorting to targetting the mystery expats.  It left me with a view of the writer as a bit uncouth and having some of the same cynical flavor as those expats he accuses, targets or describes. I don't know the reasoning behind the writer's approach.  Was it to try to distinguish between the mystery expats and the new fabs for his desired Thai readers?  Was it to blow off steam after being targetted by the mystery expats? Was it a clumsy attempt to contrast between old and new for literary excitement and journalistic sensationalism to get someone to read the articles?
  Whatever the reason, I think all would have been better served for the author to have taken the high road and not stooped to the level of throwing mud at others and then doing it again in this forum.
  Contrary to what the writer thinks, there are many forum readers that have a much more balanced view of Thailand, it's people and it's customs than they let on. They have pictures to post, stories to tell, advice to give, experiences to share that provide enjoyable reading. The nattering nabobs of negativism just talk louder or use bigger font. So my suggestion to the magazine writer/editor is to be above the fray, not part of it.

Thanks for the great suggestion. I know I am not as sensitive to the "saving face" aspect as I should be in Thailand.  It just does not come natural to me. . I will try "mai dai krup" if the need should arise. Thanks for taking the time to make such a great specific suggestion

"I bought him a drink and he asked to be offed. I told him I am not ready since the night is young and I want to go to other places - told him just maybe later."
 
I stopped using the word "maybe" in Thailand to avoid misunderstanding. I either say "yes" or "no". I found the Thai guys disliked the word IMO and would rather be told definitively. Then if the potential for another off comes along, they know where things stand. They can sometimes be stubborn about what they may regard as a promise. So trying to understand their point of view, I tell them directly.  It seems to work better.

"I bought him a drink and he asked to be offed. I told him I am not ready since the night is young and I want to go to other places - told him just maybe later."
 
I stopped using the word "maybe" in Thailand to avoid misunderstanding. I either say "yes" or "no". I found the Thai guys disliked the word IMO and would rather be told definitively. Then if the potential for another off comes along, they know where things stand. They can sometimes be stubborn about what they may regard as a promise. So trying to understand their point of view, I tell them directly.  It seems to work better.

Similar to Paulsf, I never talk about time or money generally. I also prefer to sleep alone, but on occasion if I know the boy well and he asks to stay over, I normally accomodate. Sometimes if a former gogo boy visits from out of town and I have know him a long time, he normally stays with me. I really value some of those contacts and have a better time then because I am more relaxed as is he.  I know him-he knows me.
  I can count on one hand the number of offs who have discussed money.
 
 By the way, I really enjoyed all the trip reports. It makes me homesick for Thailand!

Similar to Paulsf, I never talk about time or money generally. I also prefer to sleep alone, but on occasion if I know the boy well and he asks to stay over, I normally accomodate. Sometimes if a former gogo boy visits from out of town and I have know him a long time, he normally stays with me. I really value some of those contacts and have a better time then because I am more relaxed as is he.  I know him-he knows me.
  I can count on one hand the number of offs who have discussed money.
 
 By the way, I really enjoyed all the trip reports. It makes me homesick for Thailand!

Thank you for the report detail.  I will add the Prince Spa to my list for the next visit.

I have always had good service at Adonis. I think some people have bad luck because of their attitude.  I find that being nice and having mai pen rai attitude goes a long way in Thailand. Thai people are pretty good at sensing personalities.

I have never had a bad experience at Screwboy.  It has always been a good place to go if my flight arrives late in the evening and the other bars are closed. They generally have a variety of types and the managers have always been ok to me. Over the years I have met some decent guys there who took good care of me. I met one guy when he first started working and even after he left, I could call him. I also had a guy from their I took on a trip with me and had zero problems with him.
  I find it a different atmosphere than the Soi Twilight bars with some of the guys a little rough around the edges.  But you never know what you will find there. So I always stop by at least once when visiting BKK.

My experience is that a bar may have a set of rules about this situation or not.  The mammasans may choose to try to enforce the rules or not. I have been told at one of the more aggressively priced bars in BKK that they claimed such a rule. But I only was told that once.The next night I chose to go to a different bar.
This same bar will on weekends frequently(or used to) post a sign for admission price (which included a drink).  I have seen the same done at Jupiter. I am sure this approach is to avoid the situation of someone walking in the bar, seeing someone on stage they wanted to off, and trying to arrange an off without buying a drink.
 
On many occasions where I off the same boy on future nights, I have done so by tipping the mammasan a token amount to arrange and avoid any possible drink required rule.  This has always worked fine for me.  Sure, many times I just arrange it directly with the boy also.  I recognize this is their living and I want the bar to stay in business, the mammasan to help me (now AND in the future) or leave me alone, and the boy to make a decent wage. So I just factor all of this in to my expectation of how to act.
 
  In some cases where I have gotten to know the mammasan, I feel I have gotten good value out of the small mammasan tip as they know what I look for and do a decent job of alerting me to someone new, or someone not yet arrived, or not yet out on stage who I might be interested in, and introducing me when they arrive. I give them a chance to earn their keep.
 
  I understand some may be on tighter budgets and choose not to do this and I respect that.

My experience is that a bar may have a set of rules about this situation or not.  The mammasans may choose to try to enforce the rules or not. I have been told at one of the more aggressively priced bars in BKK that they claimed such a rule. But I only was told that once.The next night I chose to go to a different bar.
This same bar will on weekends frequently(or used to) post a sign for admission price (which included a drink).  I have seen the same done at Jupiter. I am sure this approach is to avoid the situation of someone walking in the bar, seeing someone on stage they wanted to off, and trying to arrange an off without buying a drink.
 
On many occasions where I off the same boy on future nights, I have done so by tipping the mammasan a token amount to arrange and avoid any possible drink required rule.  This has always worked fine for me.  Sure, many times I just arrange it directly with the boy also.  I recognize this is their living and I want the bar to stay in business, the mammasan to help me (now AND in the future) or leave me alone, and the boy to make a decent wage. So I just factor all of this in to my expectation of how to act.
 
  In some cases where I have gotten to know the mammasan, I feel I have gotten good value out of the small mammasan tip as they know what I look for and do a decent job of alerting me to someone new, or someone not yet arrived, or not yet out on stage who I might be interested in, and introducing me when they arrive. I give them a chance to earn their keep.
 
  I understand some may be on tighter budgets and choose not to do this and I respect that.

I should also mention that Adonis Massage is nearby across the street.  They also treat muscular and boner problems. 

I should also mention that Adonis Massage is nearby across the street.  They also treat muscular and boner problems. 

I enjoyed reading your post.  Your descriptions show the variety of different ways different people enjoy Thailand. I also find myself drawn to Bangkok because of the variety. It can be a fulfilling trip just to experience the many different things that are offered there.
 
During my last trip I spent about a week taking cooking classes in the morning and a long massage in the afternoon.  The next week it was visiting museums in the morning and again long massages in the afternoon. It was very relaxing.
 
But I must admit, I still enjoyed my nightly visits to Soi Twilight.
 
Thanks again for the interesting post.
 
 

First of all, I am not "steered" by others and their feedback. I take all reviews with a grain of salt as what one person likes, another does not. Some people do not have favorable chemistry with anyone or have totally different requirements/priorities/likes/dislikes. It is best not to rely on others. The best thing is to go where I want for my own reasons. Others feedback is only a single data point. My own sense, vibes, etc about a place carries more weight. Others feedback is only a pointer to possible likes. I believe in investigating places based on my own requirements and preferences.
 
Bar- I always make sure both the mammasan and guy understand what I expect before the off. I also generally tip the mammasans. If the boy doesn't want to do as agreed or demonstrates a bad attitude (both which are rare IMO), I stop things and give a very minimal tip and send him on his way.  I also follow up with the owner or mammasan and CALMLY tell them I was disappointed and specifically why. My experience is that I normally get an apology and either a free drink or free off. If I don't feel my disappointment is acknowledged, I do not visit that establishment again. (I think that has only happened at one place.) But I think reacting calmly and reasonably in Thailand is very important. It is not necessary to show anger and you lose respect if you do.
 
Massage- If disappointed, I try to address the shortcoming during massage.  If really disappointed, I choose someone different the next time.

Gee, the problem in Thailand doesn't sound so different than the USA.
 
I feel sorry for the Thai people.

First of all, I am not "steered" by others and their feedback. I take all reviews with a grain of salt as what one person likes, another does not. Some people do not have favorable chemistry with anyone or have totally different requirements/priorities/likes/dislikes. It is best not to rely on others. The best thing is to go where I want for my own reasons. Others feedback is only a single data point. My own sense, vibes, etc about a place carries more weight. Others feedback is only a pointer to possible likes. I believe in investigating places based on my own requirements and preferences.
 
Bar- I always make sure both the mammasan and guy understand what I expect before the off. I also generally tip the mammasans. If the boy doesn't want to do as agreed or demonstrates a bad attitude (both which are rare IMO), I stop things and give a very minimal tip and send him on his way.  I also follow up with the owner or mammasan and CALMLY tell them I was disappointed and specifically why. My experience is that I normally get an apology and either a free drink or free off. If I don't feel my disappointment is acknowledged, I do not visit that establishment again. (I think that has only happened at one place.) But I think reacting calmly and reasonably in Thailand is very important. It is not necessary to show anger and you lose respect if you do.
 
Massage- If disappointed, I try to address the shortcoming during massage.  If really disappointed, I choose someone different the next time.

I do the same as Z909 but also give him a nice kiss if all went well.

I do the same as Z909 but also give him a nice kiss if all went well.

Gee, the problem in Thailand doesn't sound so different than the USA.
 
I feel sorry for the Thai people.

I think you have been given some very appropriate advice. I have always found the captains at Hero helpful and tip them for their help.  I always take the time to tell them what I want so they ensure there is no misunderstanding.
I have also had guys where the chemistry was not right the first time, but sometimes found that the chemistry improved the second time. I knew them a bit and better and they also knew me better and what I enjoyed. 
Some customers keep trying different guys looking for what they want.  I have had good results with staying with someone I liked, even if things weren't perfect and working to improve things.

I think you have been given some very appropriate advice. I have always found the captains at Hero helpful and tip them for their help.  I always take the time to tell them what I want so they ensure there is no misunderstanding.
I have also had guys where the chemistry was not right the first time, but sometimes found that the chemistry improved the second time. I knew them a bit and better and they also knew me better and what I enjoyed. 
Some customers keep trying different guys looking for what they want.  I have had good results with staying with someone I liked, even if things weren't perfect and working to improve things.