macaroni21

I too was always glad to get hold of those freebie magazines. I needed only to know a few gay places and chances are that are the entrance door there would a stack of them. Take one and it would tell you where else you could explore for the delights of Bangkok. Of course, the days of print are over. But there's the internet. The businesses seem to be grouped in three different tiers. 1. Those with an informative website, plus maybe social media. Thinks Glam's. S'Sense, Prestige, Jey Spa. 2. Those with only Facebook or Line... the downside of this is that they are harder to find (Where does one even begin to find the Line number of a massage shop?) and the information is not as well-organised the way a website can be. Think Moonlight, Jupiter, the Saphan Khwai massage shops... 3. No media presence. This includes Hotmale in Patpong and many of the Silom Soi 6 massage parlours. The fact that there are businesses in tier 1 indicates that the question isn't whether internet advertising can be done - it can - and the question then becomes why some businesses do it and others do not. At first - and it may still be a factor to a degree - I thought that with these businesses operating in the legal shadows, it may be risky to draw attention to themselves. Selling sex is supposed to be illegal, but also, having staff of irregular migration status, which may in fact be the bigger problem. Yet, when I think about it, the Saphan Khwai places with their rudimentary Line broadcasts seem to be able to sustain such marketing despite staff from neighbouring countries and unmistakeable notations about which boy is top or bottom. Even Jey Spa, Glam's, S'Sense and other places which maintain a web presence (not just Line broadcasts) are similarly in the legal shadows on both counts, So legal risks from advertising exposure doesn't explain why many bars and massage places don't advertise at all. I think it ultimately boils down to whether the management has any imagination or initiative. As we know, some of the bars are set up by expats for their Thai lovers to run. These Thai lovers don't have a lot of education. Maintaining an English-language social media presence or a website is way beyond them. So, maybe we can group the business owners into 2 tiers: 1. Those educated enough and/or with enough drive and motivation to do marketing; 2. Those without. What about the farang-owned places? Well, here's where our logic leads us: Just because someone has white skin does not mean he is educated or have the creativity to drive a business forward. It may well be that farang or not, the owner is a tier 2 kind of owner.

Gay travelling, as a subtopic of gay history, is full of these episodic periods that flourish for a while and then vanish. As for Sunnee Plaza, I'm sure I have said somewhere what I thought of its dynamics and why it couldn't last. A bit too busy today to say it again. The above video (its actual title is Victorian Gentlemen in ITALY: The Secret History of Bachelor 'Art Tours' in the 1800s Revealed ) is only 40 minutes long, not the two hours as indicated, because the second narrative following the titular story is about why medieval people smelled. I find it almost funny to imagine the second topic as a kind of antidote for the dirt and disgust that "good" people might feel hearing the first story. What is interesting is that it is based on a 2018 unearthing of a trove of documents and photographs. Assuming that everything we post here on GayGuides is captured on the Wayback machine or other such archiving system, one day all our stories and ruminations may be made into a historical doumentary about that fleeting moment in history when Sunnee Plaza, Jomtien Complex, Boyztown, Soi Twilight, Soi 4, Soi 6, Saphan Khwai, etc were on our kind of art tour itinerary.

It's why this board - thanks so very much to @TotallyOz - is a huge social asset. We all have had great memories (and continue to make new ones) and besides this board there are few places where we can relive the fun by sharing such stories. Tell these tales anywhere else, and people would see us as pedo perverts.

My immediate reaction was: surely, there is really no one formula? I had to reread what @jamiebee wrote about his pre-planning to understand what you're referring to, and I think it's fairly similar to what I myself would do (except for the eye-popping obligation to buy gifts - do you have to pay for excess baggage to lug them home?) and I think some others would do too: have a list of places I would want to check out each trip. There can't be a single formula because our objectives may differ. You refer to sex; sure, it's a big part of fun, but each of us has other objectives and priorities too, e.g. @jason1975. And then there is the question of how much time one has. Some visitors have the luxury of several weeks and they can (and maybe should) slow down. Others are only able to squeeze in a week or less of holiday time from work. Let me give you an example: Those who have read some of my blogposts may suspect that for me, it isn't just a simple question of looking for great sex. A big part of the fun I have is to check out places -- within a sensible budget of course, so Capella is out of the running -- to answer the question: "How do these fools manage to run a business?" Once it's framed like that, you'll understand for example why hiring from apps doesn't interest me. It is as much the business that I am interested in as the boy. I know that few others would have such a priority; we're all different. And also in my case, I can (can, not always) find a disastrously bad experience to be very interesting from an observational and analytical point of view. Money badly spent no doubt, but we'll chalk it up to the cost of acquiring knowledge.... about all the things that can go wrong. - water supply cut off (you'll be surprised how often this happens); - filipino massage boy in Manila who asks me to recommend an Australian girl he could marry so he could migrate (talk about a mood-killer!) - mosquitoes in the massage room... and so on. I feel for those who are very focussed on scoring great sex. I see posts from them on this board every now and then asking for recommendations; they're hoping for tried and tested service providers who are less likely to disappoint. It reaches its apogee among those who absolutely must have colossal dongs. Unlike businesses for which a to-check-out list can be compiled by careful desk research prior to a visit, folks who are laser-focussed on getting mindblowing sex and/or mammoth manhoods have much less public information to go by.

At Boys Nigh Club, the impression I got from the papasan was that it would be uni-directional for 500 baht. Possibly a different rate might apply if it was the boy who exercised his arm, but I didn't ask. Perhaps @AsianExplorer who has infinitely more experience than I have can tell us more about the menu options. I have enjoyed X-Boys many times over the years, but I don't recall there being any pillow activity. This bar is like the last survivor of BoyzTown, with an emphasis on the show. You are right, though, about it being totally in your face, with the copulating pair circulating among the audience. More recent visits, I have insisted on more value for my money. With the bottom on my lap, I have used the opportunity to inspect closely (with my monocled eyes and investigative fingers) the piston work that the top was performing on his partner, before giving any stamp of approval in the form of money notes with the king's visage. Even more fun was the bongo drum act -- didn't see it the last time I was there -- where a boy would go around the room inviting guests to hit the bongo drum with his "drumstick". I recall one time some years past, when there were three boys around one drum, and me and my friend managed with three of our hands to beat out a rhythm. There was much mirth all around.

Thanks for the warning. I shall be careful with Cambodian cats on my next visit. 🤭

Meanwhile, here in communist-party Vietnam, capitalist invader Starbucks hoisted this at one of the busiest intersections in Saigon.

I think you're referring to Boys Nigh Club, because I was there in February and that was the business model I was somewhat amused to see. Unlike you, I just couldn't bring myself to participate. It reminded me far too much of cottaging. I almost fled. I have a blogpost at https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2026/05/29/seats-with-cushions/ That said, I think it has a viable business model. Precisely because customers come and go so quickly -- no show to watch -- the bar may never look busy; yet can generate enough turnover to at least stay alive, maybe succeed. I vaguely recall mentions on this board that one or two bars in Jomtien Complex also offer "cushions". Is that correct? Do they operate the same way as Boys Nigh Club?

Well, that's exactly my theory. They're actually like any other people around the world, but when they have to hustle, they hustle hard.

+1

Newer members may not know this, but there is no need to take @Olddaddy seriously. He likes to needle people and get a rise out of them. For some of us long-time members, any help getting a rise is most welcome. 🤣

Fond memories of Barbiery and Hotmale (or was it then still Twilight?) in the very late 1980s and early 1990s. The all nude boys on stage at Hotmale were a thrill. The fluorescent painted dancers at Barbiery were beautiful. The artist was fantastic. I also have a fond memory of a tiny bar called City Boys located on Sukhmvit or Phloenchit Road close to where the expressway flyover crosses it. Took out a charming university student who, very very rare in those days, spoke some English. Despite that, I never fully understood whether he was doing physics or physical education. The following trip I made to Bkk and City Boys was no more.

@Olddaddy note this. You don't have to buy a bar. You need only buy out all the boys from a bar.

Possibly you live in USA? Not living there myself, ending up with fistfuls of dirty low denomination US bills is pretty useless to me too. So, if I have to receive change, I would rather take riels. At least I can use them for my next purchase or next trip to Cambodia. On my recent visit, I stuck to riels and credit cards. The latter are not universally accepted but the classier restaurants and Grabcar accept them. Didn't touch a single US dollar through my entire visit. More details on my experience can be found in my post https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2026/02/09/techo-riels-and-tips/ It also discusses the central bank's dedollarisation policy. By the way, I used a travel debit card to get cash (riels) from ATMs. The riel notes were crisp and clean.

I too used to have some reluctance taking Vietnamese boys from bars; they seemed a bit too direct and transactional. Even then, I was uncomfortable with those thoughts because at an intellectual level, it didn't feel right. People from all countries span the gamut of behaviours. My sample size was extremely small by comparison; it simply wasn't fair. Then I found lovely Vietnamese guys (personality-wise) in the Bangkok massage parlours, and in the last few years, been visiting Vietnam more, and I no longer think as I did. There are all sorts. The likely explanation why some members here may think of Vietnamese as somehow different may be because you're meeting them in gogo bars, where hustling is the name of the game. Perhaps, they are just better at hustling than their more laid-back Indochinese neighbours (by the way, I use the term Indochinese to include Thailand and Burma). The Chinese too are very good at hustling, in my experience, but if you get past that or if your interaction with them doesn't involve that, they're wonderful people. Let me give you an example. In Thailand, after a certain kind of touristic show, the performers in their costumes are in the lobby allowing you to take pictures with them. I have had at least 2 experiences in China where, yes the performers were there and they were in costumes, but they were selling souvenir merchandise. I never found out if buying something (at obviously inflated prices) was the ticket to getting a photo taken. Personally, I love seeing the variety in this world.

I have noticed that too, sort of. Circus' outdoor tables can look fully occupied but I have noticed that inside tends to be distinctly emptier. I have also wondered -- and it's not just in the case of Circus but the other places on Soi 4 too - whether fully occupied tables might overstate the health of the businesses. That's a Soi where people like to sit and people-watch. Are customers sitting too long at tables nursing a drink or two? In this business, it's important to get the balance between tab value and table turnover right. I don't know what the true situation is, but I have wondered -- while my friends and I were sitting way too long at a table ourselves 😅 Reminds me of a haircut I had yesterday. Silly me chose a shop in the touristy area of Saigon. Overpriced..., but fell for a cute barber who was beckoning me to go in and avail of his skills. Anyway, it's not about him It's the shampoo girl who performed a lengthy head and scalp massage while doing the wash. It would otherwise be nice ( though would have been better if I had a shampoo boy) but for the house music played at some volume in the back/shampoo room. Trying to be contemporary, they played dance bar music with heavy beats, giving me a headache that she tried to massage away, in vain.

I don't understand what the bottom row of tiles mean. 90 days; 30 days; 14 days. Visa exemption? Visa on arrival? What? If visa exemtpion, why are they(or at least the 30-day subgroup) listed separately and not added to the 54 countries in the big red block? One tiny little thing I noticed is that the 15-day visa exemption list in the graphic/poster posted by @bkkmfj2648 (apparently from the government?) is different from the 15-day visa exemption list at 7 minutes 52 seconds in the YouTube video below. In @bkkmfj2648's graphic, the 3 countries are Seychelles, Maldives and Mauritius. In the youtube video, they are Taiwan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. Why the difference? DId the cabinet change its mind? (Such confusion and uncertainty is actually quite typical of the way the Thai government operates) But anyway, the video focusses on why the biggest change affects Indians. It also provides the added information that the visa-on-arrival period for India (+4 other countries) is just 15 days, a detail not included in the poster above.

Heard a rumour that it's permanently closed. Went to check out its Facebook page and it's confirmed. Closed since 31 December 2025. Oh well....

Yet another thought came to mind: why does the owner of Circus need to sell? And it's almost a fire sale too. I think it's a safe assumption that leases on Soi 4 will not be renewed. That doesn't mean a business must be sold even if the owner does not want to invest in a new location. He can simply run the business till the last day and then close it. After all, it was implied (though not explicitly stated) in the sale notice that the business is profitable. What I reckon the problem is is that there may be about 4 million baht in an outstanding bank loan. Perhaps the 14 million paid to purchase the business 5 years ago was borrowed, and only 10 million of that has been discharged. If that's the case, then closing the business when the lease runs out will leave the owners with a balance sheet liability of 4 million in bank loan, and no operating business to generate future revenue. Now, I am just making an educated guess. I have no inside information. But what this means is that a buyer must be careful what he is buying. Will it include a loan liability? Frankly I can see no reason to buy the business at all. If someone is interested in getting into the gay bar/ restaurant trade, then set up a new one at wherever is the new location most likely to get traffic. The only possible value is the brand-name/trademark and the goodwill that may come with the Circus name though even that might not be worth much. Circus as a name has only been around for 5 years. Before that, it was Telephone Bar for decades. Yet when a new location near Moonlight opened and began trading under the Telephone Bar name, the crowd didn't migrate there. That should be a salutary example for any new entrepreneur.

Came across this AI search mention of a New York bar by chance: "The Boiler Room (East Village): Located at 86 E 4th St, this laid-back, long-standing neighborhood gay bar was famous for having rotary-style telephones and private switchboards installed at the tables. It allowed patrons to "call" across the room to flirt or buy drinks for one another." Does anyone know of it?

Thanks, @zombie There's useful additional information there. Firstly, That means the rent is (12 x 38,100) + (3 x 350,000) annually. That is 1,507,200 baht per year. It does sound low probably an anchor-tenant rate. Not sure when that previous sale occurred. If it was when Telephone Pub was rebranded as Circus, then perhaps 6 - 7 years ago? Still, 4 million baht offered today is a very far cry from 14 million baht, and definitely raises some critical questions.

I would add that successful bars tend to have gross profits at about the 60 - 70% level. They would also have net profits at about the 10 - 15% level. Which was why the term "profit margin" and the figure of 30% seemed so odd. The mention of moving to Soi Twilight was another odd thing, although @zombie spoke of it as rumours. There is no more Soi Twilight to move to; hasn't been for 6 or 7 years.

A few things about that cited Facebook post in the OP struck me: average monthly turnover of 2.5 to 4 million baht, with "estimated profit margin of over 30%". Firstly, why estimated? Shouldn't there be a precise figure from last audited accounts? Anyway, taking it at face value, the profit -- and this is another issue: what exactly do they mean by "profit margin"? -- would be about one million baht per month. Something tells me "profit margin" may be "gross profit" or "gross margin", to use more specific terminology. This would be earnings before operating costs. Suppose instead the sellers mean an EBITDA of 30%, yet the asking price is only 4 million baht, giving a sort of P/E ratio of 0.33 which is very low indeed. However, this offer may be because they really, really, need a "fast sale". Either the current owners' "other projects outside hospitality" are desperately in need of cash injection or the bar is facing a huge problem in the months ahead and the present owners do not want to be around for that. If the latter, it would be consistent with rumours of lease termination or non-renewal in the very near future. The cost of having to find a new location and outfitting it, with no assurance that customers will stay loyal after a move, may be the very prospect the current owners wish to avoid.

Then in February this year, while queuing to pay at a 7-eleven along Pattaya Second Road not far from Boyztown, the Indian gent behind me tapped me on the shoulder to ask my opinion whether the bun he was holding (among a basket of other things) was vegetarian. I offered my opinion that it probably was; "Taro bun", the label read (turns out he didn't know what taro was). The queue was slow and we had a chance to talk. I learned that he was vegetarian and for the 4 - 5 days in Thailand, he plaintively said he could find almost nothing to eat. (Come to think of it, it's actually difficult to find vegetarian Thai restaurants!). The difficulty was compounded because he came from North India and said they (or at least he) didn't eat rice. They only ate flatbread as their staple, and it's not something he can easily find in Thailand. I stupidly said "Shawarma stalls would have flat bread", before realising, three milliseconds later, that they're not vegetarian! He didn't fancy trying other cuisines, not knowing what was in them, and anyway, he said, the tastes of Thai and Western food didn't suit him. I was going to challenge him by saying that if he had never tried, how would he know, but then I decided to be diplomatic. I had learned to wait a few milliseconds before speaking my mind. The conversation soon moved on to prices of the things in his basket and the long and short of it was that everything in his basket (from a Thai 7-eleven) cost twice as much as he'd had to pay in India. What was in his basket? I remember seeing yogurt and more bread... and lots of beer. He was surviving on that through his entire trip.

Some years ago, I was doing a post-prandial stroll along Beach Road promenade whiling away an hour or so before hitting the Boyztown bars when a group of 30-ish Indian men asked me if I could take a group photo of them. There were maybe four or five of them. We got into a bit of a conversation, and I learned that they were on a short company-paid trip. Can't remember how many days but my impression now is that it was a five-day or one-week thing at most. The were all working for the same company and each had won the best salesman award for the previous year in his sales district. So it was a kind of incentive trip. To my surprise, one of them said it was his second trip to Thailand. The earlier trip was when he was with another company and they had sent him to attend a conference in Pattaya (maybe it was Bangkok, memory's a bit hazy) organised by the regional office of some American company. This may explain the demographic profile that Londoner observed (and I agreed with). Men in the 30s and 40s. Travelling alone without wives or family, in all-male groups. (In many industries in India, women are rarely seen doing sales and marketing). As for why they had little else to do in the days they were in Pattaya, I guess they were supposed to make their own tour arrangements (at their own expense) and maybe the "at their own expense" part was too much of a hurdle.