Londoner

It was my observation that there were fewer Chinese visitors around this past fortnight. Perhaps there will be more during the Chinese New Year. The only place they constituted a majority (or nearly) was the new mall , Terminal 21. Central has certainly lost some of its allure. In Boyztown, I was expecting to see more Chinese customers in Ambiance; it was more or less full last week and its expensive refurbishment ( a huge Chinese investment) makes it good value. Across the soi, more Chinese money didn't seem to have encouraged an influx of Chinese visitors, unless large number turned-up late after BBB closed.

Agreed. Those of us who are in LTRs are interested in the subject and the interesting discussion that followed because the points raised directly concern us. Whether the sums mentioned are accurate or not is irrelevant. Some of the posts on the gay forums, particularly those which relate events on the gay scene in Thailand, are exaggerated and a few quite probably fantasies. Does it matter?

I remember it....didn't the go-go dancers wear mini-skirts rather than briefs? or is that the fantasy of an old man? Round the corner was Khun Bar, sometimes called Khun Cigar. Bill Clinton may have enjoyed that bar. The many bars in Bangkok seemed to have more individuality in those days.

In 1995 I wanted to purchase a gay guide to Thailand to assist me with my first trip to Pattaya. I looked at two- The Men of Thailand and a guide written by a guy called (I think) Michael Notcutt. I chose the later because it seemed more user--friendly and it had the picture of a delightful young Thai on its cover with a temple in the background. He was just the sort of guy I hoped to meet! A fair number of the recommended venues, I soon discovered, no longer existed by the time I arrived while others (remember that this was the Good Old Days) had opened and weren't included. The guide was helpful in other ways, though. It explained "offing" succinctly and-as it turned-out- accurately and it included simple rules of etiquette such as not touching Thais' head and being respectful of the Thai monarchy. The only other guide of which I was aware consisted of a few pages in Spartacus. I owe a debt of gratitude to Michael Notcutt.

Any reports ? is it a host bar? is it associated with the Banana bar on Soi Twilight?

Thanks for that, hank75. "Taking-care" is a very important aspect of the Thai bar-worker culture. Like you, I found it rather touching in my early visits to Thailand. And even now, my partner of fifteen years whom I met in a Pattaya bar, lives by it whenever I'm with him. Sadly, it now includes ensuring that I cross Second Road safely by holding my arm. Completely unnecessary- I cross more dangerous roads in London every day and I'm very fit- but I accept it with a smile for his sake.

I've never worried about queuing....the movement onto the buses is more-or-less continuous. The time it's sometimes slow is in low season when the driver is waiting for the bus to fill. I don't care....I'm on holiday!

Simple; re-introduce dancing. It worked in the 90s, only to be replaced by the shuffle which year by year becomes more desultory.

There is sometimes a problem doing that. The buses outside the school don't move until they are full and so you may have a long wait. Nevertheless, I wouldn't use a motor-cy for that journey. My most terrifying experience in Thailand was on my first visit when I didn't understand the motor-cy rota system, thinking that I could choose my driver. Accordingly, I "chose" a middle-aged guy to take me from Boyztown to Jomtien. He then called out to a barely-pubescent boy (presumably named "Lek") . He had apparently not yet learnt the meaning of fear. Unlike me, who never again used a motor-cy to get to Jomtien.

I too loved Sphinx in the late 90s....the service, the ambiance and the food . There seemed to be a decline in many ways after this and, in my view, it was over-priced by the time I stopped going in about 2003. What was on offer seemed no better than other places with much lower prices . But I shall certainly try F & C drung my short (very short) stay in BKK next month.

Two questions to help me prepare for my one night in BKK next month before my bf arrives..... 1)Which of Classic or Fresh would you recommend for a twinks-only customer? 2) Did you look at Hornet? If so, how did it compare with Romeo in terms of available guys?

That's interesting....The Sphinx was my first part-of-call on arrival in Bangkok a decade or so back. How does F & C compare? Is it worth a visit, in your view?

Ambiance has just had a huge amount spent on refurbishment and so I'm hopeful that the sound-proofing will be effective. If we aren't allowed a decent night's sleep, we'll cancel and return to the Agate where we are spending the first few days of our time in Pattaya.

Asanstudent is fortunate; as a young guy, he has many trips in the future to which he can look forward. Some of us are of an age when we are conscious that we have only a limited number of happy returns! I'm delighted he had such a good time. My solution to "back-home blues" is to book-up another trip quickly.

If you don't like loud music- like many of us- I'd be interested to hear how you react to Le Cafe Royal's late night, early morning performances. I'm praying that Ambiance has toughened-up its double glazing before I arrive in a few weeks.

The EVA service from LHR is a good option. I've made nearly seventy return journeys and have only had one seriously late arrival. Like paulfort, I pay about £450 extra for Premium Economy (return) . Business class is double the cost of Premium. I travel three times a year and for one flight (I choose the return leg) i have a free-upgrade to Business due to air- miles accrued. Very nice it is, too. Sadly, I have to report that it makes no difference either to the amount of sleep I get on board, nor the severity of jet lag....which, by the way, worsens year by year as we age. Melatonin helps West- East but not (in my experience) the journey home.

There is no way that we can ensure that our companions fulfill our desires. I've had had guys change from excited, sexy and friendly to cool and reserved in the five minute walk from Twilight to Tantawan. And promises made in a bar in the search for payment are not necessarily kept. I may even venture to suggest that it may not always be the fault of the guy we choose when things don't work out. My advice to any newcomer is to be laid-back; we are not buying an item in a supermarket but borrowing a human being. Sometimes, it will be very satisfying, more often merely OK and occasionally a disappointment. We may be able to learn from our disappointments in some ways but the element of luck and chance will always trump anything that we plan. We are happier when we accept this,

In the mid-nineties, I would stay in Boyztown and spend the mornings on Jomtien's gay beach which was then very busy. One day, a couple of guys appeared handing out fliers for a"new" gay area not far from Boyztown. Sunee Plaza. In this instance, ther fliers worked and I visited for the first time. I can't think of any other instance in Gay Pattaya which persuaded me to visit an area or establishment; perhaps the internet is a more sophisticated and effective means of advertising. Nevertheless, I'm all in favour of more assertive marketing to support gay establishments.

You will find plenty of guys willing and able though you would be advised to spell-out exactly what you expect from them. They may require a little extra if only on the basis that they may assume that two of you have to more to spend than one! If I were in your place, I'd call over the guy I (or we) fancied, talk with him and see how he reacts. I'd be genuinely surprised if he were to turn down the going price for the usual assignment.

If I were allowed to choose one night to re-live, it would be my first in Pattaya in August 1996. Many happy visits subsequently, but the first.....

Thanks for that vinapu. When newbies post for the first time on this board (and elsewhere, where the aggressiveness of some posters is well-known) we should answer their enquiries even if it is all "old hat" for us regulars. Imagine how disconcerting it is for someone whose first post is dismissed. So, lispice, welcome to the board and to Thailand. Treat the guys you meet with respect and pay the going-rate, correctly defined above. If you go to Pattaya, 1000 is usually fine for short time. Be sure to let us know how you get on; it's always interesting to read posts from those who are visiting for the first time. If you are like me, you will never forget your introduction to Thailand.

Exactly right. Most of us choose Thailand because we prefer twinks and there are plenty of gay Thais who manage to stay "twinks" into their thirties. Two of my regular visitors are 34 and 32 respectively and in the UK would pass for guys who are in their early to mid-twenties.

Yes, it's a beautiful book, full of interesting facts about Thailand with interesting photos.

This is correct. It's something to do with self-image. The guys often don't regard themselves as prostitutes in the western sense, but friends who deserve a tip for being good company.

I too have been wondering why twinks are paid, on average, less than muscle-guys. Is it something to do with age? And is it the assumption that twinks are bottoms and muscle-guys tops?