speedoo1

OK. That makes more sense.

Anything beyond refund of the off fee will most likely just get you a stare (aka I don't know what you are talking about) and if understood then "I'm sorry, Sir but we can't do that. Sorry". The concept of compensation for wasted time and inconvenience/annoyance does not exist in Thailand (or in fact most countries beyond the US).

You mean the thai guys performing on stage and interacting/drinking with guests between shows? 
 
I know a thai guy who has been a "model" at Zag Club for some time (currently he is not). He will label himself "model" rather than coyote dancer or even worse go-go boy (they are not go-go boys). They get paid to appear on stage and perform shows - first show will be fully dressed (often jeans and boots) or shirtless - second show will be in speedos or other sexy outfit. During the shows they will accept tips or quick drink shots from the audience and between shows they will mingle with guests on the floor, join their tables to drink and chat with guests (you are of course required to buy drinks for them or to "open bottle" with them). Some will be gay - some are obviously straight guys. Most have fit/lean/gym bodies of course. So you could label the guys "hot and friendly hosts or entertainers" encouraging you to spent money in the bar/club.
 
It is the same concept that you find in other Thai gay clubs like Fake or RCA in BKK
 
I'm not sure the models can be "offed" but I guess if they like you and you make a generous offer exceptions can be made - after all this is Thailand...

Rumours will that Mr Babe is in Macau/Hong Kong now.  
 
Source: Instagram.
 
Hopefully he will return to BKK/Moonlight soon so the Moonlight videos in Facebook will be worth watching again.

Haha, expecting that Mr Tam will still be a Moonligt model in 2020 is very optimistic. Certainly not impossible but not likely IMO, sorry.

Haha, expecting that Mr Tam will still be a Moonligt model in 2020 is very optimistic. Certainly not impossible but not likely IMO, sorry.

Apps in BKK: Asking price for a Thai MB will be 2000 B and up. Western escort guys will ask much more. You should be able to negotiate down to 1,500 B - even 1,000 B if the MB is Cambodian, Vietnamese etc, needs cash or are short of customers (low season). Offer anything lower than 1,000 B and you will be considered a cheap Charlie.
 
For the avoidance of doubt: I'm talking about ST (not LT); MB will fuck you in your room until you cum and quickly leave with a few bank notes in his hands/pocket. Easy!

Don't worry. You are in good company.
 
A non-commercial encounter. I was in Surat Thani two years ago (?) chatting with a profile that looked very yummy and was nearby and wanted to meet. The person who arrived was just acceptable when we met outside, too fat naked in my room. Under normal circumstances I would hot have had sex, but he rushed me to my room and I was confused, so I let him play with my body. Afterwards I could not contain my curiosity any longer:
 
"Is that you in the picture? You look quite different."
"The picture is my younger brother."
"Can you send your younger brother to me next time I'm in Surat Thani?"
"He likes girls."

Just a footnote to some of my previous posts on this thread...
 
Went to ARENA yesterday (Thursday) and had probably the best massage-ecounter of my life. A guy I would marry (adopt?) if given the chance.
 
We are now LINE buddies, so I expect to see him several more times. He goes by the name of "Gun", wears glasses, and, at least to me, is pretty much a perfect specimen. 
 
Not sure how much I should say here - but I am trying to cobble together a trip report.

Just to follow up on my inquiry above regarding the Airbnb condos in the Klass building in Silom soi 3.
 
I had a great 8night/9day stay in a 1 bdr apartment there (late check-out was generously granted; perfect!). Although not big (32sqm) the condo served its purpose. The bedroom was quite small but the bathroom was well sized with a shower (rather than a bathtub). The bed mattress was the way I like it; not too soft. Bedlinen and towels were obviously provided (but not changed during my stay; I suppose I could have washed them in the washing machine but I was too lazy to do it). Aircondition was quiet and fully functional. Fully equipped with fridge, washing machine, microwave oven, toaster, cups, glasses, plates and kitchen utensils, etc it was very easy to stay there. Great view of the Sathon skyline from the small balcony outside the room (I was on the top floor). Very quiet at all times; I had no noise issues at all. Perfect.
 
You have to use the keycard to activate the lift so any quests will have to be picked-up at the lobby (I found the lobby area very nice with chairs, couches etc) and similarly you need to follow them to lift in order for them to take the lift to 1st floor (ground floor lobby).
 
There is a guard 24/7, however, not in lobby but at a small booth opposite the main entrance to the building. There was no issue taking guests to the room. In fact, my impression was that many of the condos are short term leased to tourists of whom many a gay travelers - I saw several couples (farang or asian tourists together with what seemed to be a local guy) entering or leaving the building. 
 
The location is great - 5 min walking from Silom soi 4, soi 2, and Sala Daeng BTS station. On weekdays there is great and small inexpensive lunch market right across the street. There is a convenience store (7/11) very close to the property.
 
Pricing was fair for short term rental (but on the high side compared to the rates for monthly rentals in the area) but considering the cheap hotel options in the area you shouldn't do a Airbnb booking to save on the accommodation costs. The excessive Airbnb booking fee is annoying and so is the inflexibility of changing or cancelling your reservation (without costs). Next time I will consider the Baan Silom soi 3 property across the street which has cheaper options and the rooms seems a bit larger; these condos seem also widely available on Airbnb.
 
Lastly, no smell issues at all when entering the building; luckily this seems to have been an issue of the past.

Just to follow up on my inquiry above regarding the Airbnb condos in the Klass building in Silom soi 3.
 
I had a great 8night/9day stay in a 1 bdr apartment there (late check-out was generously granted; perfect!). Although not big (32sqm) the condo served its purpose. The bedroom was quite small but the bathroom was well sized with a shower (rather than a bathtub). The bed mattress was the way I like it; not too soft. Bedlinen and towels were obviously provided (but not changed during my stay; I suppose I could have washed them in the washing machine but I was too lazy to do it). Aircondition was quiet and fully functional. Fully equipped with fridge, washing machine, microwave oven, toaster, cups, glasses, plates and kitchen utensils, etc it was very easy to stay there. Great view of the Sathon skyline from the small balcony outside the room (I was on the top floor). Very quiet at all times; I had no noise issues at all. Perfect.
 
You have to use the keycard to activate the lift so any quests will have to be picked-up at the lobby (I found the lobby area very nice with chairs, couches etc) and similarly you need to follow them to lift in order for them to take the lift to 1st floor (ground floor lobby).
 
There is a guard 24/7, however, not in lobby but at a small booth opposite the main entrance to the building. There was no issue taking guests to the room. In fact, my impression was that many of the condos are short term leased to tourists of whom many a gay travelers - I saw several couples (farang or asian tourists together with what seemed to be a local guy) entering or leaving the building. 
 
The location is great - 5 min walking from Silom soi 4, soi 2, and Sala Daeng BTS station. On weekdays there is great and small inexpensive lunch market right across the street. There is a convenience store (7/11) very close to the property.
 
Pricing was fair for short term rental (but on the high side compared to the rates for monthly rentals in the area) but considering the cheap hotel options in the area you shouldn't do a Airbnb booking to save on the accommodation costs. The excessive Airbnb booking fee is annoying and so is the inflexibility of changing or cancelling your reservation (without costs). Next time I will consider the Baan Silom soi 3 property across the street which has cheaper options and the rooms seems a bit larger; these condos seem also widely available on Airbnb.
 
Lastly, no smell issues at all when entering the building; luckily this seems to have been an issue of the past.

Just to follow up on my inquiry above regarding the Airbnb condos in the Klass building in Silom soi 3.
 
I had a great 8night/9day stay in a 1 bdr apartment there (late check-out was generously granted; perfect!). Although not big (32sqm) the condo served its purpose. The bedroom was quite small but the bathroom was well sized with a shower (rather than a bathtub). The bed mattress was the way I like it; not too soft. Bedlinen and towels were obviously provided (but not changed during my stay; I suppose I could have washed them in the washing machine but I was too lazy to do it). Aircondition was quiet and fully functional. Fully equipped with fridge, washing machine, microwave oven, toaster, cups, glasses, plates and kitchen utensils, etc it was very easy to stay there. Great view of the Sathon skyline from the small balcony outside the room (I was on the top floor). Very quiet at all times; I had no noise issues at all. Perfect.
 
You have to use the keycard to activate the lift so any quests will have to be picked-up at the lobby (I found the lobby area very nice with chairs, couches etc) and similarly you need to follow them to lift in order for them to take the lift to 1st floor (ground floor lobby).
 
There is a guard 24/7, however, not in lobby but at a small booth opposite the main entrance to the building. There was no issue taking guests to the room. In fact, my impression was that many of the condos are short term leased to tourists of whom many a gay travelers - I saw several couples (farang or asian tourists together with what seemed to be a local guy) entering or leaving the building. 
 
The location is great - 5 min walking from Silom soi 4, soi 2, and Sala Daeng BTS station. On weekdays there is great and small inexpensive lunch market right across the street. There is a convenience store (7/11) very close to the property.
 
Pricing was fair for short term rental (but on the high side compared to the rates for monthly rentals in the area) but considering the cheap hotel options in the area you shouldn't do a Airbnb booking to save on the accommodation costs. The excessive Airbnb booking fee is annoying and so is the inflexibility of changing or cancelling your reservation (without costs). Next time I will consider the Baan Silom soi 3 property across the street which has cheaper options and the rooms seems a bit larger; these condos seem also widely available on Airbnb.
 
Lastly, no smell issues at all when entering the building; luckily this seems to have been an issue of the past.

Just to follow up on my inquiry above regarding the Airbnb condos in the Klass building in Silom soi 3.
 
I had a great 8night/9day stay in a 1 bdr apartment there (late check-out was generously granted; perfect!). Although not big (32sqm) the condo served its purpose. The bedroom was quite small but the bathroom was well sized with a shower (rather than a bathtub). The bed mattress was the way I like it; not too soft. Bedlinen and towels were obviously provided (but not changed during my stay; I suppose I could have washed them in the washing machine but I was too lazy to do it). Aircondition was quiet and fully functional. Fully equipped with fridge, washing machine, microwave oven, toaster, cups, glasses, plates and kitchen utensils, etc it was very easy to stay there. Great view of the Sathon skyline from the small balcony outside the room (I was on the top floor). Very quiet at all times; I had no noise issues at all. Perfect.
 
You have to use the keycard to activate the lift so any quests will have to be picked-up at the lobby (I found the lobby area very nice with chairs, couches etc) and similarly you need to follow them to lift in order for them to take the lift to 1st floor (ground floor lobby).
 
There is a guard 24/7, however, not in lobby but at a small booth opposite the main entrance to the building. There was no issue taking guests to the room. In fact, my impression was that many of the condos are short term leased to tourists of whom many a gay travelers - I saw several couples (farang or asian tourists together with what seemed to be a local guy) entering or leaving the building. 
 
The location is great - 5 min walking from Silom soi 4, soi 2, and Sala Daeng BTS station. On weekdays there is great and small inexpensive lunch market right across the street. There is a convenience store (7/11) very close to the property.
 
Pricing was fair for short term rental (but on the high side compared to the rates for monthly rentals in the area) but considering the cheap hotel options in the area you shouldn't do a Airbnb booking to save on the accommodation costs. The excessive Airbnb booking fee is annoying and so is the inflexibility of changing or cancelling your reservation (without costs). Next time I will consider the Baan Silom soi 3 property across the street which has cheaper options and the rooms seems a bit larger; these condos seem also widely available on Airbnb.
 
Lastly, no smell issues at all when entering the building; luckily this seems to have been an issue of the past.

Apps in BKK: Asking price for a Thai MB will be 2000 B and up. Western escort guys will ask much more. You should be able to negotiate down to 1,500 B - even 1,000 B if the MB is Cambodian, Vietnamese etc, needs cash or are short of customers (low season). Offer anything lower than 1,000 B and you will be considered a cheap Charlie.
 
For the avoidance of doubt: I'm talking about ST (not LT); MB will fuck you in your room until you cum and quickly leave with a few bank notes in his hands/pocket. Easy!

I'm in HCMC now. The apps (Grindr, Blued, Jack'd - I dont use Hornet) are very busy. Several guys will solicit massage + fun to you; come to your room for 500k VND and up. But if a guy is prepared to lower the rate to 500k VND you have to be a bit careful - or dont mind if he is short, a bit chubby, small cock or with a face that certainly not look like the (blured) pic he sent to you earlier! Premium guys (stunning/lean gym guys, tall and with big cock) charge 1,000k-1,500k VND/hour - asking price is higher but rates are certainly negotiable. Don't expect much for the massage part - that is not why they come to your room. It you msg a profile in Grindr with stunning lean or muscle body/torso and no face, and if you get a reply, it will most likely be a MB and soon the issue of money will turn up when you chat with him. Some will even clearly state in the profile that they offer massage; then you just ask for some pics and negotiate the price - works very easy. Craigslist is also easy way to find MB here.
 
Finding non-commercial gay lads for (free) sex is not that difficult when using the apps (I'm tall <45y with a decent body (but by no means slim anymore) and I get a lot of messages in the apps which lead to/could have lead to encounters if I had the time/interest, but again the guys can be short, <30y or on the chubby side or with a less attractive face; so you need to be selective. Most speaks limited English. I find it easier to hook up with guys here than in BKK.
 
1 USD= 22,700 VND as I write this.

I'm in HCMC now. The apps (Grindr, Blued, Jack'd - I dont use Hornet) are very busy. Several guys will solicit massage + fun to you; come to your room for 500k VND and up. But if a guy is prepared to lower the rate to 500k VND you have to be a bit careful - or dont mind if he is short, a bit chubby, small cock or with a face that certainly not look like the (blured) pic he sent to you earlier! Premium guys (stunning/lean gym guys, tall and with big cock) charge 1,000k-1,500k VND/hour - asking price is higher but rates are certainly negotiable. Don't expect much for the massage part - that is not why they come to your room. It you msg a profile in Grindr with stunning lean or muscle body/torso and no face, and if you get a reply, it will most likely be a MB and soon the issue of money will turn up when you chat with him. Some will even clearly state in the profile that they offer massage; then you just ask for some pics and negotiate the price - works very easy. Craigslist is also easy way to find MB here.
 
Finding non-commercial gay lads for (free) sex is not that difficult when using the apps (I'm tall <45y with a decent body (but by no means slim anymore) and I get a lot of messages in the apps which lead to/could have lead to encounters if I had the time/interest, but again the guys can be short, <30y or on the chubby side or with a less attractive face; so you need to be selective. Most speaks limited English. I find it easier to hook up with guys here than in BKK.
 
1 USD= 22,700 VND as I write this.

I'm in HCMC now. The apps (Grindr, Blued, Jack'd - I dont use Hornet) are very busy. Several guys will solicit massage + fun to you; come to your room for 500k VND and up. But if a guy is prepared to lower the rate to 500k VND you have to be a bit careful - or dont mind if he is short, a bit chubby, small cock or with a face that certainly not look like the (blured) pic he sent to you earlier! Premium guys (stunning/lean gym guys, tall and with big cock) charge 1,000k-1,500k VND/hour - asking price is higher but rates are certainly negotiable. Don't expect much for the massage part - that is not why they come to your room. It you msg a profile in Grindr with stunning lean or muscle body/torso and no face, and if you get a reply, it will most likely be a MB and soon the issue of money will turn up when you chat with him. Some will even clearly state in the profile that they offer massage; then you just ask for some pics and negotiate the price - works very easy. Craigslist is also easy way to find MB here.
 
Finding non-commercial gay lads for (free) sex is not that difficult when using the apps (I'm tall <45y with a decent body (but by no means slim anymore) and I get a lot of messages in the apps which lead to/could have lead to encounters if I had the time/interest, but again the guys can be short, <30y or on the chubby side or with a less attractive face; so you need to be selective. Most speaks limited English. I find it easier to hook up with guys here than in BKK.
 
1 USD= 22,700 VND as I write this.

There are some areas in Cape Town where I would try to avoid walking the streets at night/after dark. Daytime there is no issue. In the CBD/City Bowl there are a lot of homeless people/beggars on the street that will ask you for money or to buy them food. I didn't feel unsafe but the number of strangers approaching you is too much. Uber is very popular and rates are cheap. But in general Cape Town is a lovely city and certainly recommended. 
 
English is spoken everywhere. No issue at all.
 
I'm not into your kind of guys, sorry, so I don't have any first hand experience and I wasn't looking for twinks. I didn't notice any on the apps.

To answer my own questions:
 
I was told that Sea Point promenade is the place for cruising. Didn't see any obvious cruising though. I was told to look for guys walking their dogs along the promenade
 
Apps are busy (Grindr in particular). Some/ a lot of the black guys are MB. Look for profile pic of torso only and often "discreet" will be used in profile text. A quick Q "Do you charge?" will make it clear. Asking rate: 450 to 1500 rand but after negotiation 400 to 600 rand seem to be the level (USD 25-40). Some will be able to host.
 
Massage is often solicited in the apps. Asking rate is about 800 rand/hour - I didn't venture into any negotiations but no doubt rates are negotiable too.
 
Enjoy!

To answer my own questions:
 
I was told that Sea Point promenade is the place for cruising. Didn't see any obvious cruising though. I was told to look for guys walking their dogs along the promenade
 
Apps are busy (Grindr in particular). Some/ a lot of the black guys are MB. Look for profile pic of torso only and often "discreet" will be used in profile text. A quick Q "Do you charge?" will make it clear. Asking rate: 450 to 1500 rand but after negotiation 400 to 600 rand seem to be the level (USD 25-40). Some will be able to host.
 
Massage is often solicited in the apps. Asking rate is about 800 rand/hour - I didn't venture into any negotiations but no doubt rates are negotiable too.
 
Enjoy!

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread
 
I'm heading to Cape Town for a week.
 
What is the going rate for massage (outcall or incall)? - any massage places where HE is included?
 
MB: rates for ST and where to find them/pick them up? Or apps only?
 
Thanks.