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PeterRS

Romance, Bromance and Plain Old Friendship – Passions and Problems

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Beautifully written and thought out.

I was lucky enough to see McKellan in person at the Globe and have drinks with him at a pub much before he became famous. He was very distinguished even back then.

Anderson Cooper has done a great deal for the gay rights movement. I have always admired him and think he is a great anchor. I do wander why he gave up on his friendship with that comedian he used to do NYE with each year. Not a great friend if you put someone aside like that.

 

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1 hour ago, TotallyOz said:

I do wander why he gave up on his friendship with that comedian he used to do NYE with each year. Not a great friend if you put someone aside like that.

I believe it was CNN who fired her. She had shown a severed head of Donald Trump on air and that was felt to be one joke too far for the channel.

This was one of Anderson Cooper's classic interludes.

 

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Kathy Griffin.  She mentions the fickle friends that turned their backs on her in her latest special.  I watched it a while ago, remember kinda enjoying it.  

https://www.amazon.com/Kathy-Griffin-Hell-Story/dp/B07VVWGC85

Heaven forbid a comic pushes the envelope about Trump!  He's NEVER pushed any envelopes... or broken damn near every norm of class or decency...  

 

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Thanks for the interesting post @PeterRS 

I agree with you on the importance of friendships, especially “close non-gay friendships” as you state. I have 3 such friends I’ve known for 50+ years and I’ve 2 gay friends I’ve known for 40+ years.

I disagree with some of what you wrote about Ian McKellen (a tiny thing but that’s the correct spelling). I’ve seen him act on stage several times - I rate him as good but not one of the greats - and he’s popular because of his film-work. My view may be influenced by knowing more of him as a person. He was well-known as a gay man (in London at least) for many years and I met him in the 1970s. We did not get on well as I was a gay activist back then and came out at 21. He certainly refused to help or support gay causes for a long time. McKellen was in the closet for many years; he seemed to enjoy having what he termed the “queenly nickname” of Serena. I think he came out only in the very late 1980s after he’d achieved success and after his soon to be ex-boyfriend, a theatre director, had come out and IIRC disclosed their relationship in the media to no one’s surprise. 

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1 hour ago, msclelovr said:

My view may be influenced by knowing more of him as a person. He was well-known as a gay man (in London at least) for many years and I met him in the 1970s. We did not get on well as I was a gay activist back then and came out at 21. He certainly refused to help or support gay causes for a long time. McKellen was in the closet for many years; he seemed to enjoy having what he termed the “queenly nickname” of Serena. I think he came out only in the very late 1980s after he’d achieved success and after his soon to be ex-boyfriend, a theatre director, had come out and IIRC disclosed their relationship in the media to no one’s surprise. 

Thank you for correcting my spelling.

You are correct. He did not come out until he was 49. But then, if my memory is correct, there were not many who came out in the 1970s/early 1980s. In the acting business. it was known that some people like Sir Laurence Olivier were bisexual and others like Sir John Gielgud were gay. But being found to be gay in England was a criminal offence until 1967. Gielgud had suffered considerably after he was found in a public toilet ("cottage") in the early 1950s and arrested. He was then also 49. Although one of Britain's finest actors and a major 'star', the negative publicity affected both his career and his health as he was to suffer a nervous breakdown soon after. I think this public humiliation of such a great actor inevitably affected the profession as a whole for many years even after the repeal of the homosexuality law. Another well known gay actor is Sir Derek Jacobi. The same age as McKellen, he also remained in the closet as far as the public was concerned only coming out, I believe, after McKellen.

Actors were paid peanuts in those days. Many, including McKellen, undertook extensive touring around major British cities to make ends meet, usually staying in theatrical 'digs' as hardly any could afford even a proper guest house. I believe it was also true that for many in the profession, although perhaps not for McKellen and some others, that you were only as good as your last performance. There remained in the country a general fear among local theatre managers and landladies about the local media finding out that a gay man was in a touring production. It seems ridiculous today, but then times have changed massively.

With the greatest respect, I do not think anyone could be blamed for being gay and remaining in the closet in those days. That was very much the course of my life until i came out in my early 30s. It would be particularly true of pubic figures. Offhand I cannot think of any actors who did, although playwrights like Joe Orton were openly (and some would say outrageously) gay while others like the stage designer/director Derek Jarman were not only out but activists as well. Were they not few and far between?

By the time McKellen came out, he was a very big name in theatre but had not yet made his name in film. He came out to the public in 1988. The reason he came out was not a result of being 'outed'. It was over a bill Prime Minster Thatcher was trying to ram through parliament prohibiting local authorities from promoting homosexuality especially in schools. McKellen spoke out against this on a radio programme and announced he was gay at the same time. So you could say he became an activist as he came out.

I think I wrote in another forum that McKellen has done a great deal since then to promote gay activism. He has spoken, often by video link or a taped interview, all around Asia. He even gave an interview to a gay magazine printed for some years in Chiang Mai! The story I like best is when he was performing King Lear in Singapore 14 years ago. Doing an early morning interview on one of the city state's radio stations, he was asked what he would like to see in Singapore. "I'd love it if someone could show me the way to a nice gay bar," was the reply. The producer had a fit and pulled the plug on the rest of the interview. 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/ian-mckellen-urges-singapore-to-recognise-gay-rights-20070717-o84.html

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21 hours ago, msclelovr said:

He was well-known as a gay man (in London at least) for many years and I met him in the 1970s. We did not get on well as I was a gay activist back then and came out at 21. He certainly refused to help or support gay causes for a long time.

Let me just add that in no way did my reply intend to be against gay activism. Far from it. I admire @msclelovrfor hi activism in the 1970s. Unquestionably that made it a lot easier for me and vast numbers of others eventually to come out. I just believe everyone then had a choice. McKellen made his and I can certainly understand why. 

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What you write is very interesting @PeterRS I’d like to add a few observations. 

I met Gielgud in Amsterdam in the early 1970s. It’s true that he suffered badly after his arrest in 1953, but did you know that on the first night he returned to the theatre (after his arrest and being fined £10 for importuning), he was extremely nervous before he walked onto the stage…to be greeted by prolonged, loud applause from the audience?

I was a gay activist and quite involved with gay liberation from 1973-1988. I met many gay men who were involved in the performing arts; my second boyfriend was a ballet dancer. There certainly were actors other than McKellen who were out in London in the 1970s. Do you perhaps remember Ian Charleson? I met him several times. He was successful in films (Chariots of Fire, Gandhi) after working (with Gielgud among others) at the National Theatre. 
 

At that time, I met McKellen once at a party. I knew his boyfriend, the theatre director, a little better. IIRC they were living in Limehouse. I don’t know what McKellen’s income was, but his boyfriend was certainly well-paid as a theatre director - I can’t be sure but I think he was already under contract at the National Theatre then. 
 

I guess that my feeling that McKellen is over-praised as a ‘gay hero’ stems from my years as an activist. I feel that he shouldn’t be seen as a gay activist when all the ‘heavy lifting’ was done by many others. At the time, I was surprised at how readily some celebrities, gay and straight, offered to help; Elton John, Billy Connolly and Elizabeth Taylor offered generous support. I was very unimpressed that some well-known but closeted gay men like McKellen and Stephen Fry refused. 

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5 hours ago, msclelovr said:

I guess that my feeling that McKellen is over-praised as a ‘gay hero’ stems from my years as an activist. I feel that he shouldn’t be seen as a gay activist when all the ‘heavy lifting’ was done by many others. 

I can understand that view. On the other hand, I think it is important not to think of activism as being related only to one country and one period of time. After he came out I believe he did lose what would have been his first major film role in a Hollywood movie being written by Harold Pinter who had specifically asked for him. The offer was rescinded when he came out. Hollywood still did not like openly gay activists in leading roles! 30 years later he finally received an apology!

The fact is he has been an activist for nearly three and a half decades. I believe activists at any time are worthy of praise, rather like Lord John Browne even though he did not come out until he was 60. McKellen has been especially idolised as a gay icon here in Asia, a continent where activism only started much later than in the west.

I have never met McKellen, but we had a close mutual friend in New York. Around 1990 Charlie founded an organisation to persuade the world's top artists and musicians to take part in events to raise money for AIDS charities in the USA. Charlie had headed a major artists' agency and so he had a direct line to many of those he requested to help. Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS gave Charlie an office and singlehandedly he raised many, many millions for local AIDS charities all over the USA. Much of the fund raising was persuading the rich and famous in each city to host $1,000 a head dinners in their homes at which artists like Renee Fleming, James Galway and ian McKellen would take part and donate their services. Charlie said McKellen could not have been kinder or more willing to help when he was in the USA.

But let's not quibble. He may have been blind to what he might have achieved had he come out earlier. But I believe he has rather made up for it since then.

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