macaroni21

Interesting dilemma when the Asian norm is "collectivism" Is it really the norm? Or is it just a stereotype that westerners carry with them? Having spent much of my working life running around various businesses and countries in Asia, I have seen a lot of individualism. Also, there are huge differences between the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Thais and Indonesians - countries I am quite familiar with. I would rather not homogenise any impression of them. The japanese, Thais and Indonesians tend to be more self-effacing, the Chinese and Koreans can be blunt. The Thais and Indonesians incorporate social status considerations a lot into the way they speak. The others... not so much. One reason for the stereotype may arise from the language habits in many Asian cultures, where people tend to be more sensitive to others' feelings even when expressing disagreement. While fellow speakers of the language can read the subtle disagreement, I have seen my western colleagues completely deaf to the fierce argument that was going on behind the pleasant words!

Until some folks actually make their way to Silom Soi 19... and then wonder why there aren't massage parlours there. ( Or maybe there are, but staffed by middle aged women). Won't be so hilarious to them.

As Soi 6/Soi Tarntawan becomes more of a massage hub, there lies a business opportunity for the reinvention of The One. Rename itself The Big One. Remake itself into a massage parlour - you need only about 6-8 staff to make a go of it, unlike a bar that needs 15 boys to look interesting. Specialise in big, muscular boys doing massage. Once no longer a gogo bar, I presume big sums of under-the-table money need not be paid.

Even when the customer goes to the more upscale massage places like Jey Spa, Prince, S'sense, V-club or Glam's, the outlay is still less than the bars. Perhaps 1000-1500 to the shop and 2000-2500 to the boy.

9-teen is not a good example (as mentioned above) but I agree with you regarding Asian tourists. The big issues are price and performance. In the Saphan Khwai and Onnut areas, the shops take a few hundred baht and the boys expect 1000 to 1500. Performance may be uneven, but they are seldom horribly bad. In the Silom-Surawong areas, the shops take something in the upper hundreds and the boys expect perhaps 1500. Performance generally good too. From the bars, expect to pay for your drink, boy's drink, off fee and mamasan tip (total already 1500 or more) before you even leave the bar. Then expect to pay 2500 - 3000 to the boy. Performance is wildly variable from fantastic to hopeless. I am sure that's a big reason why the bars are struggling. And more so when the Asian market is a far bigger market than farang.

Every time I visit Bangkok, I will have occasion to walk Soi 6, on which 9-teen's second and third branches are located. I often find myself walking past the first branch facing Silom Road too. None of their branches is busy. A customer is just as likely to be walking into Maha, Climax, Relax Thai or Paradise as to any of the 9-teens. The only shop that, whenever I walk past, I almost always see customers entering or leaving, is Prime. There is some other reason for the proliferation of 9-teens than booming business. The question is: what is that reason?

When the jar is full, take it to Atlas Bar or NighBoys, plant it on stage and announce a jackoff contest.

What gnaws at me still (months after that Dream Boy night) is that it was my good deed that brought on the troubles to follow. There's a recent thread somewhere in this forum that goes "in Thailand, no good deed goes unpunished". And that's what seemed to have happened. It was my tipping all ten of the coyote dancers that caught the mamasan's eye. She then decided that I was a big fish to be reeled in. She came over and parked herself beside me for the rest of the evening. Maybe the lesson should be DON'T TIP the boys.

I was in Singapore one year close to their F1 season, staying in a hotel within PeterRS' map above and exprienced some road closures for their practice runs (oh, the noise!!!). I was gone by the time the actual race took place though. I recall a few observations I made while there, which might be applicable to Bangkok or not. As PeterRS mentioned, Singapore roads are nowhere as congested as Bangkok roads. Singapore also has plenty of major roads that run parallel to each other in the downtown area, sort of like a grid pattern, with roads 100 - 200m apart. If one road is closed, traffic easily diverts to a parallel road. In fact walking Singapore streets is like downtown Sydney or New York. Every 100 - 200 metres, you come to a traffic light crossing. Bangkok is not like that. Its major roads are often 1 km apart, e.g. Rama IV Rd, Sukhumvit Rd, Pethaburi Rd, and all are congested anyway. Few sois run parallel to the major roads and thus cannot serve as alternatives. Closing roads in Bangkok guarantees chaos. The F1 circuit in Singapore (the map above refreshed my memory) wasn't in the busiest part of the downtown. It was in the more picturesque part with colonial buildings and museums but even on ordinary days, these weren't the busiest roads. So diversion wouldn't cause much spillover traffic. Presumably Bangkok might consider the analogous Sanam Luang and Grand Palace area, which should not cause as much economic damage as closing Sukhumvit or Rama IV roads. However, looking at the map again, I see the Singapore has four MRT stations around the F1 circuit, so bringing in 100,000 spectators on public transport to various parts of the circuit is not a problem at all. In fact, I think there is a fifth MRT station at the bottom of the map where the Helix Bridge is. That's the station that serves the Marina Bay Sands complex. Also, there are lots of 4-star and 5-star hotels close to Singapore's F1 circuit. Tourists simply walk to the event. On both counts - insufficient public transport and absence of hotels within walking distance - the Sanam Luang/Gand Palace area is disadvantaged.

Thanks for the pic, @reader It is vaguely familiar. I must have walked past it a few times without knowing what's inside. I reckon, from the words "Lounge and Karaoke" on its front wall, that after dinner hours, the place converts to a karaoke host bar like there used to be in the Saphan Khwai area 15 - 20 years ago (maybe they're still there, haven't been in years). Is that what happens after dinner hours? The big problem I have with karaoke bars is that they expect customers to speak Thai and be familiar with Thai songs. So... it's hosts and hostesses? How many boys versus girls did you see?

It wasn't that bad. We did roll around some, but it was rushed and mechanical, and after he resisted being touched here and there, I had lost interest. The issue was that in the bar both the mamasan and he himself claimed he was versatile, but once in the room, this cannot, that cannot.... If so, mamasan could simply have told me that the boy had a prior booking. I have come across such clearcut responses in other bars; no need to lie. Same here! I know very well not to use mamasans or even to trust them, and yet here I was making the same mistake.

If it's any consolation, we all have our wtf nights. I just uploaded onto Shamelessmack an account of my own expensive train wreck. https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2025/03/25/ten-100-baht-tips-and-a-train-wreck/#more-6680

Where is Mr O's bar? Is it signed as "Mr O" or some other name?

A key difference is that I have no intention of retiring in a foreign country least of all one that does not have infrastructure for aging. I have solid relationships with my blood family. Furthermore, in my home country there are legal systems for powers of attorney, retirement homes, subsidised medical care, etc. Sure, it won't be cheap like in Thailand, but I just can't see how trusting a moneyboy to somehow show reliability and financial responsibility is a better concept.

I'm not sure I could tolerate a regular who spends his time playing beach volleyball into the night. It would frustrate me no end. I am quite happy to accept that I am an incorrigible butterfly. I would not want a relationship with any moneyboy in Thailand. I've had enough trouble maintaining a relationship in my home country with partners who share my own culture, language and of similar socio-economic status; I am almost allergic to relationships now. But I have had regulars - I think @spoon mentioned such arrangements too. These are guys I see most times that I come to Thailand; we fully understand it is transactional all the same, but it's distinctly easier and more comfortable for both of us to be transacting with someone we know and see from time to time. They don't last for very long; 2 - 3 years would be typical. for one reason or another, they vanish or they go back to their home towns and we don't see each other anymore, and soon lose touch. However, I can think of two of them who have definitely made something of their post-moneyboy lives - and I am so proud of them. Two more might have made something of their lives, but I lost touch with them quite soon after so I cannot be sure their new careers were sustained. Of the two that I am proud of, the more recent one now has a steady, proper job with an airline. He's not cabin crew, but in ground operations, based in Suvarnabhumi. As for the earlier one, that was 20 years ago. He decided to leave the massage business and go back to his Isaan town. He enrolled in a nursing school and graduated as a certified nurse. He has done well ever since. He must be 50 years old now, and perhaps a senior nurse in a local hospital. I can recall two others who also looked like they made a switch for a better career than sex work: One became a musican in a band, and last I heard, they were touring provincial towns perhaps singing at weddings. The other had to rush back to his hometown when his father had a stroke. Apparently the father ran a small motorocycle repair shop or something like that, and my moneyboy (whom I vaguely remember had a diploma in accounting or some such discipline) had to help fill the void in the business. A year later, a mutual friend told me my ex-moneyboy was now the boss. I haven't been in contact, and I wouldn't want to embarrass him by trying to keep in contact. In short, I tend to choose level-headed people to be my regulars. They are level-headed enough to know that our relationship is not ever going to be a love relationship; they never ask for money beyond services rendered (if they did they would be cut off in an instant). But their level-headedness also means they are likely to keep control over their lives and they plan forward. That said, some others have just disappeared and I have no idea what they've made of their lives. But these four - the fact that they have moved on gives me a warm feeling.

Those who responded with a smile are not very good at their trade, are they? They should have replied, "No problem, my cock very big. I can fuck you."

Ah, so there is a distinction between fake Venice and fake Italy. My bad, and rather embarrassing too, since I claim to be such a connoiseur of fake (fake love).

What??? 😆 Goes to show how tastes differ! But thanks @Raposa and @reader for the link. I tried but was thrown off by the spelling of Khymer Times.

After years of being on this forum - membership being surely one of the pleasures of life - I reckon there are four "desires" among those of us looking for paid hookups. 1. A simulacrum of romance (possibly leading to a real relationship); 2. Quickie sex; 3. Quickie sex Latin American style, otherwise known as being pounded to injury by donkey dongs; 4. Massage with erotic finish. If (1) is not a priority, longtime might not make any sense. Personally, (4) is my top priority followed by (2), so I don't miss not doing longtime.

That's my interpretation too, but nowadays, that's purely theoretical. I don't do long time anymore. I don't sleep well with a stranger in my bed and past a certain age, the self- inflicted expectation to have to cum again in the morning, a mere 6-7 hours after the last "episode", is more like a chore.

The patent on Cialis and tadalafil expired about 7-8 years ago. In Thailand, indian-made generic, branded as Apcalis, is widely available from just about any shop that also sells Sidegra. About 300 baht per box of 4 tablets, if I recall correctly.

Not always a good idea. I have heard this story from Vietnam: A young son back from the US launched a new business, partly funded by his parents. The business did well and expanded, and he hired a cousin to manage one of his new branches. The cousin began to misappropriate some money every month, but not so much that it would sink the business. Nonetheless, it was intolerable for the young entrepreneur, who obviously wanted to fire the cousin. However, his parents persuaded him to keep the cousin on, because firing that guy would cause a rift in the family. So, for months (years?) the cousin had free rein to the till. As often happens in such cases, he took more and more, but still the parents were against firing him. Finally, the cousin's mother died andwith that, the question of family rift became moot (I think the cousin's mother was the sister of the entrepreneur's mother) and so the cousin was sacked. By then however, he must have taken a lot of money. The expiry date is clearly printed on the Sidegra box. Easily checked before purchase even if buying from a small pharmacy.

Interesting that you added this remark. I was thinking the same thing. Although Fresh Boy and Dream Boy get far more customers than Hotmale, when I look back at the offs that I have taken, I believe I have taken more from Hotmale than the other bars. I like the selection at Moonlight too but what puts me off with that bar are the uncomfortable seats and the pushy mamasans that sit with you. So, I have not been into Moonlight for maybe 2 years now. Having their boys wearing clothes on stage didn't help at all!

But later on, you said you returned "the same way" which I read as by cable car. Which should have brought you back to the southern end of the island. However, you said you ended up at the replica Venice.... Did I miss something?

+1 Somewhere there I can see a charge of parental abuse being made out.