macaroni21

Let's begin with the bad news. Hopefully, the later reports will be more cheery. After all, we're only two weeks from Thailand doing away with the Thailand Pass and the insurance requirements. We can't expect tourism businesses to spring back to life that quickly. Nonetheless, one wonders if some things that we were familiar with - so familiar we almost took them for granted - will ever come back. It's been reported by others that Patpong Soi 1 no longer hosts a night market. This is what the street now looks like. I've never been fond of obstruction caused by the stalls, but the dreary look of the street now is even worse. I've never really counted how many girl bars used to operate on that street, except a sense that the number of bars have been declining slowly over the years, but it looks as if only the King's Castle bars have reopened.

Another view of the former soi twilight site:

Oh, I recall now a couple of massage shops on Silom Road under Saladaeng Station that have massage rooms back of their foot-massage lounges. On the ground floor. Sorry, I don't recall their names, but it should be easy enough to pop in to the counter and ask. The thing though is that these are not "full on" erotic massage businesses like Arena and so the level of "extra service" to be had depends a lot on the particular service worker.

It's been some 3 or 4 years since I have been to Arena and here I assume that it is still in the same premises as then, but I think your question isn't so much about reaching Arena from the shopping mall's street level, but is about whether the massage rooms are on the same level as Arena's lobby ( where the masseurs stand in a semi circle to be picked). Your question does bring a vague recollection that they *were* one floor higher than the lobby, but perhaps others with more recent visits can speak with greater certainty. That doesn't mean they might not have a room or two on the same level though... But now that you ask, I'd be hard pressed to name a massage place where the rooms are on the same level as the 'parade lobby'. I can only recall Bangkok Massage during its brief period on Patpong Soi 2. Over in Pattaya, the massage places in Jomtien complex, as I recall, have rooms on the same (ground) floor, but don't take my word for it. It's been a while, and I don't normally pay much attention to this aspect.

Yes, this parallel occurred to me too. The private sector is also prone to this kind of thinking. One saving grace however, may lie in the fact that there are way more hotels than gay bars and competition is fiercer. Another would be how international hotel chains might not want to adopt any such policy for fear of damaging their brand reputation.

No landlord will do any reporting as it may well be self-incriminating. See this article about the legality of AirBnB rentals: https://freshbangkok.com/is-airbnb-illegal-in-thailand/ While this article speaks about how AirBnB rentals rely on the relative neglect of the authorities, the current reality may make it a little riskier. Reader pasted a Bangkok Post story just hours earlier "Lack of flights, rising fuel costs mar revival" (see page 2 of thread Air Fares to Thailand) which mentioned that Thai hotels' average occupancy rate is currently just 34%. They must be bleeding red ink and this may motivate them to complain loudly to the government to put a stop to competition from AirBnBs.

Ha ha, you make it seem as if the stickers were designed for us and our specific interactions.... if only! And judging by Gaybutton's reaction, the stickers only leave us more confused. If they were designed for us, the whole thing would be a major fail. Apparently, the stickers are major revenue-generators for LINE. Users buy sets and sets of them. And the revenue graph at https://www.statista.com/statistics/1227434/most-popular-messenger-apps-worldwide-by-monthly-iap-revenue/ comparing LINE with other messaging apps, is stunning. Other sources of revenue, such as business advertising, contributed a lot too. According to statista, LINE is the top revenue-grossing messaging app in 2021 even though it has big market share in only four countries: Indonesia, Japan, Taiwan, and Thailand. In 2020, it had $1.5 billion in revenue (https://distinguished.io/blog/line-statistics-net-worth). (What's even more surprising from the graph is the absence of WhatsApp. It's not there among the top ten.)

Interesting that you were seeing Chinese tourists already. They must have come via indirect flights, or might they have been Taiwanese? I doubt if resumption of 2 flights a week would make much difference. And the bigger obstacle must be the re-entry requirements into China. Last month, a friend of mine had to return to Hong Kong which is his normal work location, and he described the hotel quarantine arrangements he had to make. I would not want to be in his place. Unfortunately, I can't remember whether he said one week or two weeks. In any case, a quick check with the US and another embassy website indicated that visitors entering China have to do 2 PCR tests - at 48 hours before departure and again at 24 hours before departure plus and an antigen test prior to boarding! Assuming that Chinese citizens returning from a vacation in Thailand must do the same, this - and whatever quarantine they need to endure - makes it difficult to foresee any significant resumption of travel for the Chinese.

Responding to the original post: In all the times that I have been in Thailand, I can't recall an occasion when the foot massager assigned to me was a ladyboy. Most of the time, they are quite clearly straight lads. But if I was put on the spot like you were by a foot massager going on about tips, I would probably have stopped the session midway and spoken to the manager, asking for a change. At the very least, I would speak to the manager before I left even if I chose to let the session continue. I believe the key question was how much to tip under such circumstances. I wouldn't tip. I agree with z909: "there's a moral obligation to NOT tip bad service, as it means behaviour will continue unchanged and other customers will suffer." It is irrelevant whether the foot massager gets a sort of salary from the shop or not, though my information from two of these workers some years back was that they do. These two were unusual in that they were not straight lads, and were more than happy to meet after work and provide erotic services in my hotel room, where I took the opportunity to ask them about the business model in foot massage shops. It's irrelevant too how poor their families are. I am not in Thailand to perform charity. If I buy a service, they should provide it to satisfaction. Responding to the discussion about how much to tip in normal circumstances: If my memory serves me, the typical one hour foot massage would be priced at 250 - 400 baht, depending on how touristy the location is. My rule of thumb is to tip the worker 50% to 100% of the listed price. In theory, quality of service should determine whether it's closer to 50% or 100%, but, to be frank, I don't really know how to judge quality for foot massages. The dirty secret is probably how handsome the foot massager is, and how friendly he is. Did my heart flutter? is the test. A pretty face, nice bod and a sweet smile may well raise the quality rating in my estimation, haha. Which also means that if I was assigned a female worker she'd never make it past the bare 50%. Nothing would have fluttered and she could never be pretty enough. 🤪

If Winner bar has a viable business model, they really should get out of Sunee; the dreariness of the neighbourhood will put a ceiling to their customer traffic and revenue. There must be plenty of vacant shoplots, if not in the Boyztown soi, then in the adjacent sois, e.g. where A-bomb is. That said, the Boyztown area will not have the al fresco space that the Sunee area has, but some shoplots have balconies. The pity is that the Jomtien Complex does not allow gogo bars.

I would also be keen to learn from you about the scene in both Hanoi and HCMC, but I would suggest that the threads - separate threads by city or type of services - be in the Gay Vietnam forum so that they will be easier to find in future and be more useful to members.

I recognise the slab tower block and the name of the soi (phluk jit). There are several blocks like this in the area, beneath one of which is/was a row of massage parlours. I have had good times there and I hope the businesses are not impaired by the incident.

What, may I ask, is the alternative to getting old that is worse?

It's interesting to see how variable our routines are, and how they've shifted as one passes through the decades. Since, more often than not, my visits to Thailand are linked to work, my days in Bangkok have a different rhythm from the extra weekends that I manage to tack on in order to escape to Pattaya. In Bangkok my hours will largely be dictated by the needs of meetings, at least in the day, but it also means that I really cannot stay up late if I have appointments the following morning. It's no big loss; I am well past the age when I had any interest in dancing through the night. As will be obvious, doing sleepovers with an escort (a.k.a "long time") is also out of the question. Which is no great loss either. I've done that in the past and found little real value in it to compensate for the morning inconvenience when boy needs to sleep and I need to be up and out. When I manage to add some extra days in Pattaya, it is to escape Bangkok. My sleep pattern then changes. I catch up on sleep and may not rise till 10 or 11 am. After a cup of coffee, I will likely be off to spend the entire afternoon on the beach, reading a book and/or watching people. It's my alone-time. Brunch/lunch is also a light meal at the beach. In my view there's not much to do in Pattaya in the daytime anyway. That's fine for me. I am there to unwind. As evening approaches, I get busier. A massage as the sun goes down, then dinner, then I hit the bars and go hunting for a companion (short time). I see discussion in this forum about places like Dragon where the party doesn't peak till 3 or 4 am. That's not for me. Never really was -- and I've been to several of its predecessors. I am not a good drinker and I've always found the noise level too loud. Not my scene. So, even with a good lad from a gogo bar for short-time, I should be able to get into bed no later than 2 or 2:30 am. That would mean some 8 - 9 hours of sleep before the next day.

The idea of the guy(s) having newborn grandchildren actually gives me a warm feeling. I hope the income he earned from me and others - White spa was reportedly very popular in its heyday - gave him a good start in life.

They are still showing guys from Prince Spa....

I have actually been to 2 places in this general area, plus minus 1 or 2 kilometres. One was the first location for Hero, or at least the location before they moved to Sukhumvit Soi 11. The other was White Spa. Indeed the travelling time didn't make it all that worthwhile though even today I remember the fantastic massage I had at White Spa. That might have been in the 1990s or early 2000s.

But I want to see the boy douche himself properly...

Vinapu - your "only once" assessment is probably correct. You may discover that he spends most of your short time hour or hour-and-half admiring himself in the mirror, haha. I speak from experience with one such guy some years ago.

Here's a graph from Thaiwebsites.com. The numbers (for quarterly arrivals of tourists) are in millions. The Dec - Feb peak is not pronounced. It's only about 20 percent more visitors than the lowest quarter.

Thailand has three seasons. There is the "cool" season between December and February where the midday temperature is about 31 or 32 degrees and little rain. Then there's the hot dry season from March to May with daily maximums reaching 35 to 37 degrees. Humidity rises month by month till it gets quite uncomfortable in May. Not much rain. The monsoon arrives in June. This is warm rain coming down in buckets for about 1 or 2 hours a day, about 4 or 5 days each week. Often with thunder and lightning. Quite different from the gentler but more persistent rain seen in Europe. Between rainstorms, it tends to be hot ( max 33 or 34 degrees) and humid, but after it has rained, the rest of the day is cooler. Rainy days reach a peak in September. That month and October is also when Bangkok is most likely to flood. The amount of monsoon water coming down the Chao Praya river is huge. My observation is that the cool season tourism peak is largely a farang (westerner) phenomenon. Partly it's because, as others have said, the weather is the best of the three seasons, but I think an equally important driver is the fact that Europeans and Canadians are keen to escape their winters. Pre-covid, the mass migration of Russians each winter to the beaches of Thailand was impossible to miss. Asian tourists - and they are the majority of visitors that Thailand gets - are more used to higher humidity and tropical weather. I don't think there is much of a peak for them, with the possible exception of a trough in March and April when the daily maximums are too hot even for them. Most Asian countries also have monsoonal weather patterns, and rain is hardly a deterrent to them. They are used to it and know how to cope. Summers in Taiwan and Japan are not different from Thailand's monsoon season. Then there are the farang visitors who through experience have adapted to Thailand's temperatures and moisture levels, and they are quite happy to come in any season. Adaptation includes knowing what to wear for warm humid days: the lightest possible cotton t-shirts, shorts and sandals. Have a broad-brimmed hat if you want to avoid sunburn on the bald patch. Learn from the Asians and always walk in the shade, never in the sun if at all you can avoid it. In Europe the sun is your friend; in the tropics, the shade is your friend. Scoot into air-conditioned malls regularly to cool off and hydrate frequently. I don't think there is all that much difference between the conditions in Bangkok and the close-by beach towns. The main difference is that the beaches get a steady sea breeze which even in the hottest months, is very pleasant. But if one is not a beach aficionado and spend little time on the beach, then the built-up parts of the beach towns feel pretty similar to built-up Bangkok.

Ever since I stopped saying in the Boyztown area (noise!) and preferred Jomtien, getting from the gogo bars of Boyztown back to hotel has never been a problem. More often than not, the gogo boy himself has a motorbike, so I ride off with him. If he does not have his own transport, we use motorbike taxis. Since I don't fancy the idea of 2 pillion riders behind the driver, so we'd hail 2 Motos. The songtaews outside the school run well past midnight - or used to, anyway, when bars stayed open till late - but they take too long to fill up and move out, the later the hour. Several times when the gogo boy had his own bike, he didn't have a spare helmet. If caught by traffic police, I might have had a problem, but so far so good. As one boy cheerfully said to me once: "no problem. Late already. Now police no have, all sleeping."

Like others have advised, you should be tipping them for the opportunity even if they are agreeable to being groped. I would also wonder if, these being karaoke type bars rather than gogo bars, there is more resistance to being seen by their mates as the one being groped. Many of them may be straight, and even in such environments, have all sorts of macho hang-ups. Perhaps the best thing to do is to off the chosen guy anyway and then in the comfort and privacy of your room satisfy your hands. Nothing says that offing must necessarily lead to full blown sex. Naturally, the boy should be compensated with a rate similar to any other off.

It's going to be tricky drawing conclusions from experiences of members flying long haul routes from Europe or North America to Asia, when one is planning a Canada to Texas trip. There are innumerable factors that can impact pricing of Asia routes that may not apply to intra-North America routes. One that I can immediately think of is the re-routing many airlines have had to make to avoid Russian airspace. Another is the fact that travel into and around Asia only resumed quite recently, whereas in the US, it never really plunged to the same degree. The weak passenger demand of late 2021 would have meant depressed prices, and consequently today's prices may look high simply because one is comparing against a low base. By sheer chance, I took a number of intra-US flights in April and May. I may be able to give you a different perspective. I pulled up data on what I had paid, then checked for prices of the same flights for July period, taking care to match day of week and avoid holidays. The July prices varied considerably from the prices I had paid, but on average, they are 20 to 25 percent more. That having been said, there are all sorts of deals available, and if one shops around on Expedia, etc, one can even get lower prices today compared to what I had paid. Most, though, would involve flights at unpopular hours.

I found the opening post inadvertently funny. I'm sure it was unintended. Photos of cross-dressers in a show immediately following the thread title "Long pants are officially off ..." only made me think: Yeah, the pants are off, to be replaced by skirts. 😂