Ask a former money boy anything

[Guest ryanasia]

Price range is an interesting question. The rates in Europe were actually relatively low. The clubs take around 50% of the money back in those days. So clubs like the Blue Boy and Valentino in Koln would charge around 200 Guilder/Marks back then and the boys would make out with around half of that. That is pretty low paying considering you could wait around all day for a customer. 

 

You had to get customers that tipped well to bring home the bacon over there. The best customers were the Brits because they think in pounds. There were boys that tried to do as many customers in a day but my approach is to find one good one. I didn't like doing it more than once or twice a day.

 

I worked one night in a brothel in South Kensington area of London. Sort of weird outfit you sat in a living room with a few sofas and a kitchen you could make some food and chat with the other boys. Looked like any living room anywhere in the world.

 

The catch was one wall had a one way mirror so you couldn't see who was picking you. I was delighted to hear that the going rate was around 120 Pounds an hour. So I did my first room and much to my dismay when it came time to get paid I got the princely sum of 40 quid. 40 quid isn't enough for anything in London and not even back in those days. I guess it was all students that had a place to stay or they could live in that room. Never stuck it out long enough to care.

 

On the streets of London I could get a 100 pounds without too much effort for a short time. Over nights always varied depending who it was and how the chemistry felt. I didn't mind spending time with reasonable guys and was also fishing around for a sugar daddy so the ones that didn't work out that well I just wrote off as late at night there would be no more cash to be had many times anyway. 

 

One difference is in western cities most of your customers have to work so there is a point it goes dead. Amsterdam and Thailand are a bit different because they are guys on holiday a lot of the time. 

 

On the street in the USA freelancing $100 was okay for a short time and $200 until the morning. I would obviously take more if I could and sometimes settle on less if needed but that was average. Keep in mind these prices are from nearly 20 years ago now. 

 

Various cities in the USA would vary so while a $100 was a nice little score in the midwest I would want at least $150 or more in a high market place like Los Angeles. You could sometimes get $1,000 a night in LA for an overnight. Anything over $500 was a good score and in the midwest back home anything more than $300 was also about as good as one could expect. 

 

In Japan I could get anything from $100 an hour to absurd amounts depending on who it was. The Japanese give a lot of gifts in addition but as we discussed in another thread I mainly wanted cash. I got a lot of hopelessly lost tourists in Japan so I guided them around as part of my job. I preferred Japanese although they will not tip more than you originally agree so you must get your desired amount in your first negotiation. I did a lot of it in Japan to go on trips because I really liked the country and it is quite expensive to stay in 5 star onsen hotels there. The Japanese were normally pretty decent to deal with anyway. 

 

I worked as a mama-san in Japan in one of the boy bars and was able to do okay out of it. I dealt with the foreigners that came in and they alway spent more on drinks than sex usually. I speak a decent level of Japanese so had no problem learning the host game in the bars there.

 

A Japanese boy was around 12,000 Yen for an hour and maybe around 23,000 yen all night. Again not really that high paid for the time they spent standing behind the bar waiting. The house took slightly less in Japan but it was still a good chunk maybe the boy ended up with 8,000 Yen for a short time after it was chopped. They also got paid though for sitting with customers. The rate for every boy at a table was something like 1,500 Yen every 15 minutes. So if you could get a guy to sit with 4 or more boys you can see how that adds up.

 

If I got a guy to run up a huge bill and take a few guys I would get maybe 10,000 Yen for a nights work hosting. Usually this would be some food as well and obviously all the drinking I did. It wasn't a bad gig. It wouldn't be that rare for a guy to run up over 100,000 Yen drinking and playing rock, paper, scissors and other stupid Japanese bar games. lol It was pretty outrageous the charges but if you have an expense account why not? 

 

Thailand I found some foreigners mostly from Germany in Phuket during my time there. By this time I wasn't doing it really as a living but would entertain the idea once in awhile. I would ask normally around 4,000 Baht and the times and such would vary more. To get 4,000 for an entire night was acceptable. But Thailand is more laid back so as long as the guy was buying drinks and sometimes also buying my favorite boys for me I was in no real hurry to run away from a customer. 

 

So being your own boss and freelancing was always the way to go really. Although if you were good looking the brothels offered steady customers and I could basically drink for free in my down time. I teach Thai boys I meet in gogos how to free lance online these days as well so they don't have to wait around in their underwear in numbers if possible. Don't get me wrong I like the boy bars and brothels and gogo bars I just wouldn't want to be on stage in my underwear wearing a number when you could save the john a bit of money and probably make a bit more.

 

Things like if the guy is taking me on a trip also mattered. If it was a nice place you want to go to maybe settle for less to go there. If it is terrible maybe you don't budge. That was one thing I found from the boy bars in Amsterdam and Germany is they were good to meet customers who were regulars so although the house took a cut it could be very lucrative if you met the right one. The fee was split but anything above it was yours to keep. 

 

I would say in my prime maybe around $50,000 a year would have been normal. Some months were better than others. Traveling around and having to get hotels and other expenses because I was many times living in cities I didn't know anybody in ate up good chunks of this money. I would often times just like at a Spartacus guide and find a town with rent bars and just show up. So I had to do well under pressure at times. 

 

So whatever you make, the moving around and drugs and the lifestyle takes it back anyway. Porn stars and bodybuilders made a ton more than that in places like LA. I was just the twink next door working my way around the globe. A lot of it for me was the adventure, it was exciting. 

[Guest ryanasia]

Annoying things customers do I will answer in another post later but the question is noted.

[faranglaw]

Very interesting and thanks for your honest recountng.

 

My question is aboutmdanger on the job. Did you ever feel that you were in a truly dangerous situation, either on the street or with a violent customer in their home or hotel room? How did you handle that? Do you think being a money boy is more dangerous on line, because you don't have the mamasan screening customers and you don't have witnesses who might identify a bad customer if something goes wrong?

[Guest ryanasia]

Well I will make a short post because I am tired but when I free lanced I would either use my mobile or the days before mobiles make a call from the place we were at. I wouldn't say too much in the call but it did it's intended purpose of letting the guy know he could be traced. For the most part I wasn't afraid because I was normally stronger than the guy taking me. However if a guy wants to tie you up or something you need to know how to deal with it and let him know somebody knows where you are.

[Guest ryanasia]

But yeah sure you sleep with one eye open sometimes

[Guest]

An interesting snapshot of life as a money boy.

[ggobkk]

Thanks for the posting on variables in various countries.  Laughed when you mentioned the place in South Kensington with the one way mirror which I've visited now and then over the past twenty plus years.  I'm glad I left a good tip for the boy.  Things are still the same in the USA, though porn stars pricing depends on the "star's" financial situation at the time.  

[Guest ryanasia]

Yeah the prices change on any given day, depending on the circumstances. The problem is if you drop your price once too many times you will compromise your value later. Hard to get $200 one day when you went for $50 yesterday. Bank roll management is key or you end up down and out on those rainy days.

[gerefan]

ryanasia

Can you tell me whether people actually pay the outrageous prices asked for overnights in Europe and the USA. It always seems strange to me that an hour is about £100 and an overnight anything up to £700+. I suspect it is negotiable.

[Guest ryanasia]

Yes, some guys will actually pay those prices. As always everything is negotiable but some people just have enough money it isn't a big deal to them. Some guys get off on flashing money around. I think Thailand there are many guys like this it is just a lower price to flash money around and feed one's own ego. As I said before though usually anything over $500 in a day was considered very good. $1,000 was a bit like hitting a mini lottery it didn't happen that often.

 

Though with the clubs the prices were pretty hefty for 24 hour periods and the clubs didn't negotiate. The hourly prices were pretty horrendous for the boy at the clubs but you would get in the money if you could get the 24 hour escorts. $35 (this is around the amount of the discounted price for overnights) an hour 24 hours a day is good money. So you would end up with over $500 for a 24 hour escort after splitting with the club. Also added to this is you wouldn't be spending anything during your entire time unless you wanted to. 

 

I would never do any shopping until the date was over so I maximized my chances of the customer buying me things. Some guys would and some guys wouldn't. This sounds greedy and probably is but if you were working in Amsterdam in the winter and got invited to Gran Canaria for a beach holiday or something like this, the price of clothes could add up and it is a cost. So you tried to get the customer to subsidize your "business" clothes as much as possible. Building a good wardrobe is essential if you wanted to be on top of the game. Doesn't pay to look poor.  

 

 

When guys would fly me somewhere for a few days or a week then the price per day would go down. Also if the place was nice it would be taken into consideration. Not sure what else to say there I have seen people drop money on crazier things. 

[Alexx]

I really love the way you handle this thread, your replies are candid and give very interesting insights. Three thumbs up from me!

[Guest ryanasia]

I think Christian asked about annoying things customers do. I already said the tongue slip thing. Talking about personal problems all the time. Telling me about their marriage or just in general making difficult conversation.

 

Touching me in public I hated. in the boy bars that is fine for me but at a nice restaurant or out on the town I wasn't that cool with it. Not that i really cared who was watching but because I just didn't like it. I would allow it though most the time if the means were worth the ends though. I would try to use my body language to give a hint that it wasn't great for me but would put up with it if need be.

 

People that won't ever leave you alone when you are sleeping. I know people want to cuddle at night and that is fine but some guys are just over the top trying to fondle you all of the time or sticking their fingers in your ass etc. Again if you roll away or use body language you would think they would understand. I am talking about after you have been out at clubs late and already given a good performance. In the morning okay that's fine but let me at least get a couple of hours of sleep as many times I had a long day ahead finding my next place to stay and all. 

 

So in self defense I would do a maneuver that came to be coined the "burrito roll". The basic way it is performed is take the blanket and put a portion of it under you and roll it around you with your weight holding it around your body. No easy access and I wouldn't sayit guaranteed a great night's sleep but it did prevent a lot of pestering, at least you aren't going to get a finger up your ass unexpectedly. lol Good times.

 

In addition to this there are a lot of nut cases that play weird mind games. One that comes to mind is this guy who would tell you every other minute "My name is Jeff R******h, you shall remember this the rest of your life." No idea if i spelled his name right or if that is the exact name, it was something close to that though. But he said that at least a dozen times in the hour or so I was with him. So Jeff, if you are reading this i guess your game sort of worked. I at least remember how annoying you were even if I didn't get your name exactly right. I decided to edit the name just in case but you still get the idea.

 

Other things that were annoying were time wasters. people that would incessantly haggle, or offer weird things to trade in lieu of cash. One guy offered me supermarket gift certificates one time. I would have done them if they were at a discount a boys got to eat but he wanted full face value for them. 

 

Guys that tried to save you from the streets were annoying as well. There was one on Polk Street that would offer you a place to stay and a peanut butter sandwich. Read an article about him later in some local gay rag evidently he was some christian with a room full of crucifixes. Get the fuck away from me with your peanut butter sandwich can't you see I am working? 

 

There were also the guys out to rip you off and screw you out of your money but those guys are in a different league then annoying. 

 

One guy I met in Polk Street SF picked me up in a car and we arranged to go to a hotel out by the airport. I think it was a Marriott. Seemed legit to me so we pull up into the parking lot and he gives me the key to go in and tells me the room number. He says he needs to park the car. So I get into the lobby and go up the elevator to the room and find the key doesn't work in the door. It is a Mariott key card but looking closer it looks years old. After a couple of tries it dawned on me that he doesn't stay there and dumped me off out by the airport. So I had to spend the $40 or whatever it was to get a taxi to get back to town.

 

Luckily I had it because in the Polk Street days of working money was pretty tight. Along with the loss of money it is humiliating when the other hustlers ask you how you made it out. "I did alright I guess." 

 

So the asshole caused me that much grief and a bit of money just to get his rocks off feeling me up in the car on the way there. Fucking unbelievable what some people do just for a free feel. This taught me to be more aware and also to limit contact unless you could be certain you were going to get paid. 

 

I could probably go on all day about annoying people but those are a pretty good cross section.

[Vessey]

One or two of my Thai friends can be annoying for a very different reason - the constant 'Up to You' response.

 

What would you like to do today? - UTY!

Where would you like to eat tonight? - UTY

You want to go cinema or go to a show? - UTY

Do you want to go for another drink or go back to the hotel? - UTY

 

My LB friend Nicky was the worst for that - 'You the customer' she would say 'always Up to You',  - yet at the same time making it very clear if she didn't like my eventual choice. (and yes there were huge compensations with Nicky that far outweighed this).

 

So my question is - where did the balance lie for you between just doing whatever the customer wanted, and expressing your own wishes, particularly when asked.  Is the 'Up to You' a peculiarly Thai thing? 

[Guest abang1961]

No, we have a similar lang in Singapore.

It is in Hokkien, a Chinese dialect - chin cai which means anything...

 

How to use it?

BF: What you want to eat?

GF: Chin cai

BF: I get noodles for you.

GF: No.no..I don't want to eat noodles.

BF: So what do you want"

GF: Chin cai, chin cai

This exchange went on a while... eventually, she ate the BF's food.

[traveller123]

One or two of my Thai friends can be annoying for a very different reason - the constant 'Up to You' response.

 

 

I still get this from my partner of getting on for 8 years and it still annoys me.

Yesterday was typical when we went to the bank in our local town:

Partner - can we go to eat some lunch.

Me - no problem, where do you want to go?

Partner - Up to you.

Me - you are hungry, tell me where you want to go

Partner - Up to you.

 

I will balance it out, he knows I only like very mild spicy food so he thinks he is being considerate

[Guest ryanasia]

One or two of my Thai friends can be annoying for a very different reason - the constant 'Up to You' response.

 

What would you like to do today? - UTY!

Where would you like to eat tonight? - UTY

You want to go cinema or go to a show? - UTY

Do you want to go for another drink or go back to the hotel? - UTY

 

My LB friend Nicky was the worst for that - 'You the customer' she would say 'always Up to You',  - yet at the same time making it very clear if she didn't like my eventual choice. (and yes there were huge compensations with Nicky that far outweighed this).

 

So my question is - where did the balance lie for you between just doing whatever the customer wanted, and expressing your own wishes, particularly when asked.  Is the 'Up to You' a peculiarly Thai thing? 

 

I think it is but it depends on the personality. I think to be good at the job you should be able to take the lead as well. For example if I am living in Amsterdam and get an American or Brit that has never been there then I should be a good guide if they don't know what is around or the best options. 

 

The guy I am with now when I met him had money but came from a poor background and didn't know how to really enjoy his money or was a bit reserved. In this case I would suggest all kinds of things such as dirty after hours clubs or places to visit. He loved good food so I let him pick the dinners and I would coordinate the entertainment. 

 

Your more seasoned customers already know the game and usually have a plan. Although in the west it seems the decisions were mostly made at least to a degree by consensus. Some guys would dictate everything and that was fine you just go with the flow. 

 

If I didn't like sushi I would say I don't want to eat it. Unless I knew the guy had his heart really set on it then I would go along with whatever they want. I found the majority of the guys in the boy bars were open to being led around more than they wanted to take the lead. On the street level it didn't matter that much because you were likely only to spend a short time or an overnight anyway.

 

One funny example is my bf who was a working boy with me had an offer for us to go to Belgium with a customer. After spending a night at his house in Leuven and being served rose champagne by his mother. We were invited to view his Disney collection the following morning.  He had a huge collection tucked away in the attic of this old mansion he lived in. There must have been millions of dollars of original Disney memorabilia. I am not into Disney but did my best to look like every piece was fascinating.

 

Fast forward two days and he took us to Paris. In this case I hadn't been there before and let him play tour guide. We do all the usual stuff we could but we had limited time. So on the last day we would be there he offered us a choice. We could either go see the Louvre or we could visit Eurodisney. I was pretty emphatic that it I wasn't spending my last day in Paris with Donald Duck. LOL I was laughing that this was even being seriously discussed as an option. So I think the western guys will be more assertive and t if the boy is nice this can work out very well for the customer.

 

So it seems like whoever was more knowledgable would take the lead. If neither of us knew the place then I would usually try to steer us toward a good time. 

 

Wouldn't it be nice once in awhile if the Thai boys had great ideas of where to go and what to do? Though many times I would make suggestions of things I didn't care about if I knew the guys interest. This I considered part of the job and service. I think some of the boys here would do a bit better to be more proactive and this would lead to getting more trips and excursions. Also the bond grows stronger if you spend that much time together and you are likely to get a bigger pay day.

 

I see some boys do specialize in tours and know what they are doing and I have to think they make out better than a guy who has no more interest than eating noodles at his favorite place around the corner from whatever gogo he works at because his "sister" runs it. The Thais don't for the most part seem to really know what we like other than we like Thai boys. 

 

In Japan I would let the Japanese take the lead because I would have been out of my depth choosing what a rich Japanese guy would have wanted. Many times though they would want to go to American style places if they liked foreigners. If they wanted to go to a upscale place that was Japanese the selection would have been theirs to make. Most Japanese with money have refined taste and an idea of what they want I guess. 

 

The Japanese boys would be a bit more like Thai guys with "up to you" but if you ask them a couple times they will be more capable of making suggestions. 

 

 Part of it all is that for the most part the western boys are more likely to be from a similar educational background and cultural background as there customers. So they are more likely to be able to perceive the needs of their customers. Thai boys aren't going to know where the best steak is or what you are looking for. In the west however if a boy had never been somewhere he would likely have heard of it and be able to recommend it based on that. 

[vinapu]

 

People that won't ever leave you alone when you are sleeping. I know people want to cuddle at night and that is fine but some guys are just over the top trying to fondle you all of the time or sticking their fingers in your ass etc. Again if you roll away or use body language you would think they would understand. I am talking about after you have been out at clubs late and already given a good performance. In the morning okay that's fine but let me at least get a couple of hours of sleep as many times I had a long day ahead finding my next place to stay and all. 

 

So in self defense I would do a maneuver that came to be coined the "burrito roll". The basic way it is performed is take the blanket and put a portion of it under you and roll it around you with your weight holding it around your body. No easy access and I wouldn't say it guaranteed a great night's sleep but it did prevent a lot of pestering, at least you aren't going to get a finger up your ass unexpectedly. lol Good times.

 

Big eye opener this thread for me.  So  I'm offing boy long time in order for him to have good sleep 'burrito" type in my bed ?.

 

No wonder I had few complaining that they want to sleep although one of boys on my last trip complained and immediately answered to himself 'you don't pay me to sleep", rewarded with taxi money for his deep thought.

 

On another occasion his friend from the same bar actually asked up front for few hours of sleep because he spent previous night on the bus but offered compensation right away saying he will stay with me following day as long as I want.

 

 

But I fully agree, If boy falls asleep trying to finger him in his sleep is gross and asholish thing to do and ewe can only hope that when we are sleeping boy behaves as well - I recall few watching TV  with voice muted

[Guest ryanasia]

The burrito thing was reserved for the most annoying people and not the norm. Just don't be that guy and it shouldn't have to be like that.  Remember my response was in regards to a question about annoying people.

[vinapu]

Wouldn't it be nice once in awhile if the Thai boys had great ideas of where to go and what to do? 

My guess will be they have ideas but because they consider us of highers status they are waiting for us to make  a decision.or at least suggestion.

 

If our boss invites us for a lunch we are not rushing with suggestion either expecting him to made a move.  

[Guest ryanasia]

What if your boss asked a suggestion? You might have an idea or two. I think it is more lack of experience. They haven't been to any of these places for the most part and genuinely don't know what to suggest. 

[ChristianPFC]

I think Christian asked about annoying things customers do.

 

I could probably go on all day about annoying people but those are a pretty good cross section.

 

Yes, please continue. Highly entertaining. My favorite thread this year.

 

A few days ago I had a boy who is overly ticklish (I knew already from our previous encounters). I will synchronize our next encounter with shaving (I shave about twice per month) and see if that solves the problem (I want to run my hands and lips all over his body).

[Guest ryanasia]

If you are shaving him it will make him more ticklish. 

[vinapu]

 

A few days ago I had a boy who is overly ticklish

I like those specially if they are bigger and stronger than me so they can defend themselves against my harassment , in meantime wrestling can be lots of fun

[Guest pinktrails]

Hi ryanasia,

 

How awesome of you to post this thread. I personally respect people in the profession very much and I find the life they lead intriguing. I never pay for sex myself, (but not saying I never would) but I feel like red-light districts, for instance, are one of those few places where the world is a lot more "real". I enjoy it whenever I'm there. From the boys or girls working there, I get a sense of authenticity that in this modern world, is very rare.
That is a strange contradiction maybe, as on the surface they are salespeople after all. They smile and flirt with anyone resembling a potential customer - but the world they live in is very real and I think they get to see the real world of their customers too; inevitably.

 

So you should write that book! If you're in Thailand I'd love to sit down with you and do an interview and publish it, and brainstorm. Maybe I can help in some way. It's not an easy thing to do.

 

For now, I have a few questions to add to this thread:

 

• At some point in your life, you reached the decision of selling your body. What led up to that event?
   
• What was your life like before you chose this profession, and how did it evolve in the months following, and then after a few years, how did you look back at your old self from before your career as a "money boy", and how did you feel about the person you'd become?
   
• How was your first time? How did you get your first customer? Did you awkwardly walk into a go-go bar and said... "I'm here for a job"? Or did you go online.... What were your thoughts, your fears, your expectations? Could you describe that "first time"?
   
• What are, in your opinion, the common misconceptions from the "Jon's"? I've heard people so many times say things that don't make sense to me when they talk about the sex workers they engage with. "Oh, it's in their DNA. They just looooveee it". "Oh, it's just a job to them". And some are just completely oblivious to the character and spirit of the person they engage with and they seem to not even recognize them as human beings.
  To me - and I don't know so this is why I'm so grateful for the chance to ask you - the very act of selling your body must also affect the soul. Maybe not at first. But your sense of self-worth, your views and opinions on humanity... What impact does the profession have on all that over time?
   
• If there's one thing you could tell someone who's going out to look for a "money boy" for the first time? What would that be?

Thank you so much again Ryanasia. Sorry for the many questions . I have tons more!

[Guest ryanasia]

Thanks for these questions many of these will fill out the background a bit. My next post is bound to be lengthy but I am about to type it up. I may do this one a question at a time to break it up a little bit. I would be open to an interview I think the interaction might lead to some amusing insights. I am in Thailand and am open to the idea. I can describe things in a much more colorful way in person and it takes up less time than putting the thoughts out in writing. 

 

 

 

"So what led up to that event?"

 

 

 

I was running around quite a bit when I was a young kid. When I was around 12 or 13 I was still living with my dad but for the most part was running around the street with a bunch of street kids in my area. Even at that age I looked younger than I was and even some of the people I ran with would question if I was old enough to smoke a joint or drink. Obviously I thought I was old enough. So anyway in the course of running around I became sort of nomadic and spent little time at my dad's house preferring to go where ever the day took me. 

 

I began to notice some older guys would often approach me in shopping malls and at the local pool hall, video arcade that I lived next to. At this time I only really ever fantasized about girls and never gave being gay any second thoughts. I certainly wasn't tortured by my sexuality and perhaps was even a little homophobic as that was how street kids were back in those days. 

 

We all made homophobic jokes and called people fags, that is just how our vernacular worked and nobody back then was out. This was back in the late 80s so pretending to be a gangster rapper and gangbanging was popular at the time. So I was a run of the mill, hoodlum, punk, running small scams and selling dope to make my ends. 

 

So this guy at the pool hall who was a bit strange to say the least used to come in and pay for video games and pool, treat me and my friends to pizza. I was younger than my other friends normally by around 3 years they were all around 16 or over and I was going on 13 at this time. So a couple of the guys that were what you would call pedophiles favored me over them. I guess I had the look that attracted them. I was that innocent boy next door type probably appeared a lot less macho then my other friends so perhaps this made me more approachable.

 

Whatever it was it led me to being able to get my friends free shit a lot of the time. I wasn't really trying to be a hustler but my dad was pretty poor and I was always looking for a way to get ahead a bit so to speak. but it seemed in places where kids gather there was always that old guy around and usually more than one. There was the guy who would take you to Wisconsin dells and just look for free feels, the guy who bought pizza, the guy who offered you a token job on the weekend. 

 

 

The job on the weekend guy is what I will go into because although it wasn't really outright hustling it would be the first time I was introduced to the idea of sexuality being a financial benefit. Back then I just sort of thought about it like some creepy guy will pay me money for an easy job and basically buy me most anything I want as well. My needs as a 12 year old were not very great so it wasn't a small fortune by any means. 

 

So he gave me a "job" on the weekends indexing card catalogs for his business he ran out of a small nondescript office. Looking back a monkey could have done the job I was doing. There was very little to it. I would copy various cards from industry related magazines by hand and index them. He always commented about how cute my handwriting was. I guess these cards were kind of nothing more than souvenirs for him in some ways.

 

The catch to the job was he would give me a hand job now and again. He always wanted to blow me but I was way too shy to do that at the time and still felt I was straight. So this is sort of how I began in the trade and found out that I could use my looks to survive. After about 3 months of working for him I had moved completely out of my dad's place and was a runaway because I quit school and didn't live at home. 

 

So there was a warrant for my arrest and now I was completely on the street either couchsurfing or staying with one of the older guys when need be. It wasn't an intentional decision to sell my body really and it began out of coercion and opportunity.

 

By the time I was 14 I was making more than my dad was by "dating" these guys and selling weed on the side as well. My dad knew what was going on sort of and where I was staying but he was an ex con himself and lived by the code of not ever involving the police so I was more or less free to do what I wanted. 

 

In the early years much of the interaction didn't involve actual sex. These old guys into very young boys are actually pretty meek and not really that aggressive from my experience. They seemed to just be very lonely to me. Given the dark secrets they were hiding that seems pretty logical. There are more of these kind of guys around than many of us would like to think. 

 

I am in no way justifying the behavior of these men and just trying to relate my experience with them. This is probably the most touchy part of the subject for me as it is the most taboo. The main people I am talking about are already deceased but this is some of the first time I have opened up about this. You have to bare in mind there was a time mentioning much of this could have led to lengthy prison terms for some of those involved. 

 

So if I seem to be omitting some of the details in this section you are probably perceiving that accurately. I am a bit hesitant because of some of the judgements that may occur for saying everything openly. Were these guys monsters? Did I become a monster just like them? I can assure you I didn't become like them and didn't consider myself abused. I am not saying what went down was right but it is just another piece in a puzzle so please don't judge me based upon what i was doing when I was that age too harshly. 

 

When I would get caught and sent to the reform school and they informed the other kids in "counseling" I was being harbored by pedophiles and that was a bit tough. They would threaten to put me in solitaire and take away privileges if I didn't cooperate with the prosecution of them. This I would never do because of fear of the other guys and it would be to admit that I might be gay or was involved in gay sex. This isn't an easy thing to admit openly under such circumstances. Even now I have some butterflies describing this as there are so many mixed feelings involved. Talk about a subject with stigma attached to it. lol

 

My friends all knew what was going on but they all received benefits out of the deal and so it was left unsaid. They would always call the old guy a fag but would never harass me about it. In their opinion I was just getting by and everybody made out well of it so it was pretty much ignored. Of course some of them were doing some of the same things on the side and I heard tales of some of my friends turning actual tricks over on Hennepin in Minneapolis. 

 

My other friends were getting into bigger and bigger crimes with heftier penalties and more severe consequences. I was never willing to take it that far, so sort of did some petty hustling and that sort of thing to get by. I knew the felonies and gangbanging that my friends were doing was immoral and was way farther than I would go. So I guess I could say is hustling old men was my way of staying safe and a better moral fit for me. You can say I was using these guys but remember I had hardly turned 13 at this point. Things were so weird that at times all moral lines were blurred. 

 

So it wasn't strictly hustling but I think it gives some of the answers as to the conditions that led up to my eventual choice to do so. Many things have been left out or this would get too long. I could go on forever and give all the people descriptions and such but just trying to answer the question as how I got into it. 

 

So I am not sure where to cut this story off but that is some of the back story on how I started. This went on for a few years and I ended up being on the run from the law and in and out of reform schools for petty offenses. I would get caught they would send me up and I would run away first chance I got. When I was on the run i sort of lived off of these types and they were always keen to help a runaway. So I made up an alias and he would masquerade as my father when I got caught out late at night drinking, busted for weed or whatever small crap that would get the cops involved. This cycle of arrest and run was rinsed and repeated until i was about 17. that is when I ran the last time and made it until i was an adult at the age of 18.

 

 

"How was your first time? How did you get your first customer? Did you awkwardly walk into a go-go bar and said... "I'm here for a job"? Or did you go online.... What were your thoughts, your fears, your expectations? Could you describe that "first time"?"

 

 

 

The first time that I went to sell myself in the more traditional straightforward way was in Loring Park. I had just turned 21 and decided I would go into the game and take money directly. You would stand on the corner and the cars would go by and drive around the parking lot. The parking lot was ironically for the Ministries of Jimmy Schwaggart. 

 

So of course I was nervous and my heart is beating. It was a bit of sickening adrenaline, euphoria and fear. I was normally high on something at the time just to ease my nerves.  Your knees shake a little and there is a period of time that seems like an eternity before the first car stops. You can see the other hustlers jumping in and out of cars and of course you are also ducking the police. 

 

There was no internet scene back then and the park was quite busy in the summer time. So the first car stops and I jump in. I made some small talk just to get the car moving. Nobody wants to stay stopped right in the pick up zone as that's how you get busted. It is better to move right away a few blocks and into relative safety. 

 

The guy was a pretty normal looking, polite, atypically midwestern type. On TV they always have scenes about asking if somebody is a cop, this isn't true the way to determine if they are a cop is grab their crotch before mentioning any money. That was my approach anyway. If they are a cop they aren't going to want more of that. After that was established I sort of half stuttered and mumbled my price. He was a regular on the scene and said it was expensive but he accepted it. 

 

It wasn't a price that was out of line and he was just negotiating which is normal. He took my back to his place in Como Park and we had pretty normal, vanilla sex. He sucked my cock and fucked me and I slept at his house until maybe 6 am and then drove home. So the first time other than the atmosphere of the street corner aspect of hustling was pretty routine. 

 

He told me there are a lot of freaks about and to give him a call if I was out and about just so it showed up on his caller ID. He gave me some other advice that was pretty good as well and I saw him around once a week in the future while I was in the park. 

 

After your first time the next times get easier for the pick up part, you begin to recognize the cars, the other hustlers, how to spot potential gay bashers and that sort of stuff. 

 

The first time at the boy bar in Amsterdam I was introduced to the club. My "friend" brought me there and we were told the owner wasn't there and to come back later. I came back later on my own and walked up the back steps from the Spuistraat and they must have seen me coming because of the CCTV. I was greeted by the owner who asked me what I wanted. I told him I was looking to make some money and was told this is the place to come. He asked me if I had any experience at this before. So I sort of turned on my business face and flirted a bit and informed him in no uncertain terms I had done it before many times and was very good at my job. He sort of chuckled and said okay then come on in. The first night there was anything but routine but that is how I was introduced to the Blue Boy house of boys. 

 

 

 

 

"What impact does the profession have on all that over time?"

 

 

 

 

This is difficult to say. Some boys burnt out and the drugs take their toll. Some guys started off with mental problems and had these sort of issues to overcome. For me I never saw it as a big deal and was quite proud of my job and how I conducted myself. It can be quite hard on the ego when you get outright rejected. Regardless of who you are you will face the harshest rejections you could imagine. Emotionally it didn't phase me too much but I never really sold my soul or did too much that weighed upon my heart. 

 

The earlier pedo shit was a bit fucked up in hindsight but that wasn't really hustling. Thinking about being 12 years old and working for some 47 year old who thought my handwriting was cute and gave me hand jobs is a tad warped I suppose. I never worry too much about it because I guess in some ways I can justify just about any of it by dismissing it as acts out of necessity. I didn't harm anybody except maybe myself and feel I made it out in tact so it is what it is. I think some people make a bigger deal out of it than it is. 

 

 

 

 

One long term impact is I spent all of my 20s and some of my 30s doing this and should have been doing other things. The nature of being a traveling boy was that I wasn't able to attend school and wasn't part timing 

 

 

 

That's what I have for today. Reading it again there are a few gaps in the early years and this is because I was simply answering the question of how it led to the decision to become a sex worker. I haven't given too many in depth descriptions of the characters and details of everything or this would have been much lengthier. I think those sort of things are meant more for a book or interview. I am sorry if I missed some questions but think some of them sort of blurred together and were addressed in a round about sort of way. 

 

If you want me to clarify anything please ask again or rephrase the question. I feel the part about my younger years was a bit off topic and gets more into weird intergenerational pedo shit than hustling in general so I sort of just left it at that. It is hard to know what to leave out and include at times.