macaroni21

Oddly enough, I once spotted a commuter on the NY subway watching porn on his cellphone. It was pretty late at night and the carriage wasn't packed, but other passengers weren't that far away.I was seated next to him, for example! That said, yes, I agree with @PeterRS such a scene would be remarkable in NY, but not remarkable at all in Japan.

I agree with all of you; in fact I had come to the same conclusion as to the business dynamics long ago. This was why my question was really a different one, from the angle of the customer's preference. It was prompted by a passing mention from a friend who said that one particular Japanese site wouldn't work for him because he absolutely had to see faces before making a selection, and that site blurred out faces. He didn't much care about the stats; he just had to have faces. So, my question was from a customer's perspective: do you all ask for stats and service capability if these are not published? Or are faces and beautiful bodies enough for you to make a selection, not caring about the stats (or quite happy to take your chances)?

Unlike the boy agencies in Japan, almost all of whom maintain up-to-date websites complete with boys' stats, availability (by the hour, too!) and the precise service they will deliver, the massage parlours in Bangkok seldom have websites, and when they do, the information tends to be very general or dated. I am reminded of what @vinapu said in the thread "New Silom hotel opens" about businesses needing to have the resource to monitor and update [websites] regularly, though "resource" in my view is a polite way of saying these business owners and managers are too lazy to learn the basics of maintaining a webpage. But I understand that maybe it is not as useful to a business that relies on local customers in Thailand - as just about all massage parlours do - if Thais themselves do not have a habit of visiting websites. Unlike in richer nations, laptops are far from universal. Just about all people in 3rd world countries like India, Thailand, Indonesia, would choose to own a smart phone rather than a laptop if money is tight and they cannot afford both. Yet, I was thinking, even so, why is the information provided on their Line advertising relatively patchy and inconsistent compared to the Japanese sites? A few Thai massage businesses actually do quite well in this respect. For example, Kman and Phetboy consistently put out height, weight and condom size information, expected tip, together with "T" or "T&B" annotation to accompany the photo(s). Some parlours also add age. That said, I think it was @reader who experienced a failure of Phetboy to ensure that the booked boy was there on time; and this is the kind of disrepute that no shop can afford however fantastic their social media presence. On the other hand, places like Jey Spa (I scrolled through a few months of their Line advertising) do not put out any information. They just publicise a facepic. BT House is like that too, except that once in a blue moon, it publishes stats of one boy. One. I should mention TK Massage, but I honestly don't know what to say! Other places are in-between. Either they put out just body stats and nothing else, or they mostly send out only pictures, with the occasional blast containing stats (for a few of the boys, not all). So here's my question for members of this forum: How much do you need these items of information to be able to make a selection: - height - weight - age - condom size - service role - expected tip - availability by day? An additional question: How important is it to see a mostly-unclothed boy in the photo (like the Japanese sites) rather than one with clothes on? I know one can always message the shop to ask, but wouldn't it be easier to just publish the information the way Phetboy and Kman do? Because having to ask and then reply to enquiries with asked-for details is just extra work for the customer and the manager.

I would have thought the easiest way to raise money from tourists in order to reinvest in tourism infrastructure or provide insurance would be to tax hotel accommodation when with a waiver or rebate if the hotel guest happens to be Thai national. Of course, this needs to be supplemented either with enforcement against AirBnB rentals of under 30 days, or else change the law and allow AirBnB for less than 30 days and impose the tax on those too. I know, I know. Thailand is famous for enacting all sorts of laws but not enforcing them.

Just about all other countries' electronic arrivals notification can be submitted a few days in advance. In fact "in advance" is the desired part, so that the immigration system knows to expect you, watch out for health risks, etc. If a tax is to be linked to this, then the e-arrivals system will need to be linked to an e-payment gateway, making it perhaps the world's most complicated arrivals notification system. And then the e-payment option must cater to lots of different travelers including those 3rd countries like India that do not have an easy way for their citizens to make a foreign currency remittance easily. Or the rate of commission will be very high, (15-30%) for small amounts like 300 baht. Yet Thailand wants to attract visitors from there! Some official has been thinking out of his ass.

@Olddaddy, hasn't the death of Sunnee been discussed to death?

I see a place marked in red (accommodation) in the above map, marked as "Siam House". But I don't recall any first hand reviews of this place. Has anyone stayed there, or is it uninhabitable?

@jason1975 when you get into Bangkok in March, do tell us whether you still have to submit your fingerprints and get your photo taken. Something tells me that, knowing Thailand as many of us do, it will take a while before they realise that these procedures are pointless if the famed biometric system isn't storing the data. But junior minions will continue to do as minions do... Isn't that fun?

Re Hotmale, was there anything different about the available boys, prices or the show?

Oh, and how can I forget! A gun battle broke out while our open canoe was on the Kok river as we putt-putted our way through a steep valley. We could see flashes on the mountainside to our right. There was nowhere, absolutely nowhere, to duck or hide, save to jump into the fast-flowing river (which would have been too stupid to contemplate). Some locals on the boat screamed, but others didn't seem too panicky (it was mostly locals on the boat) - a relative calmness which was rather curious. Nor was the boatman too alarmed. He revved the engine, but kept going. In any case, what else could he do? Soon, there were flashes of gunfire from the other side of the valley. But I also noticed that no bullets were piercing the water around us. We weren't being ambused from both sides. The boatman said something to the passengers in Thai, which of course I didn't understand. But it didn't take long for me to guess that it was actually a gun battle between two narcotics gangs who controlled opposite sides of the valley. They are aiming at each other, not us. Still, it was a relief when the shots died down soon after and we were several hundred metres further along. The fast river current helped.

My most memorable excursions around the country have been boat journeys. The first was in the early 1990s - a ride on an open longtail boat from Tha Ton (right up north, near the Burma border, down the Kok river (a tributory of the Mekong) to Chang Rai. It took just an afternoon, but it being an open canoe (albeit a motorised one) with no protection from the blazing sun, I was roasted by the time we reached Chiang Rai. Tweny years later, it was another longtail boat (this time with cover) for a two-day journey upstream on the Mekong River, from Luang Prabang to the Lao town on the opposite bank of Chang Sean (I forget waht the Lao town was called). To be clear, it was in Laos, not Thailand. I loved that trip; we had to negotiate quite a few rapids, and the boat also stopped at several villages and hermitages along the way (the route serves locals mostly). I have been wondering on and off whether it might be fun to go down the broader stretch of the Mekong from Nong Khai to maybe Pakse or, if possible all the way to Phnom Penh. But I don't see any organised route; though I am sure if I put on my younger backpacking self, I can do it without too much trouble. The only thing that makes me hesitate is if this more downstream stretch might be through too flat a region, so less interesting than the gorges and mountains up north.

I have always seen frequent flyer points as something not far removed from Sri Lankan rupees or Nigerian naira. FF points are ultimately a currency with limited recognition. In the same way that SL rupees /Nigerian naira are only recognised and accepted in Sri Lanka/Nigeria, so FF points are only recognised and accepted by the airline or its alliance. In the same way that non-convertible currencies like tha SL rupee are largely controlled by (sometimes) erratic actions and decisions of a single government or central bank, so the value of FF points are arbitrarily decided by the issuing authority (in this case, the airline). The only major difference is that accumulating FF points gives the hoarder bragging rights -- "See I am a high-social status person who jets around a lot". Or he gets to enjoy business class on the cheap. But even that is not much different from enjoying a hotel suite in Sri Lanka or Nigeria after paying in rupees or naira.

I suppose this experience has been super useful in that you may want to avoid these dates should you decide to relocate to Cabu for several months in future? Do you see yourself being able to live in 22 sq m apartment for 2 - 3 months? Might you get annoyed by the limitations? It's 104 percent more expensive, not 204% (sorry, nitpicker here). From the listing of facilities, it does sound justifiable, but features are not the only things that determine prices; there is also supply and demand. If Koreans and Japanese are flocking to Jomtien, you'd get a different comparison.

Before we put to bed our wonderful memories of Tawan bar at its long-time Soi Thantawan location, I have a question for those who were familiar with Bangkok even before I became a regular visitor. (My pic above was taken in 2010) I think my first visit to Tawan bar was in the late 1980s (possibly early 1990s), but I somehow remember it as being at a different address from the above picture, possibly facing Surawong Road rather than inside a soi. I don't even remember it as a muscle bar; more like a bar with average-looking boys. What I do remember with certainty is that it had an upstairs room which I used, since, as a newbie, I was too nervous to take boys back to my hotel. Was I mistaken? Was Tawan at a different location before its heyday (at the location pictured above)? Or was I actually in that shop except that its interior looked different in the early days of the bar? And while I am here, I should again give a shout-out to @Lotusleaf's post which contains a link to an entire show at Tawan.

I noticed it too, but I didn't want to draw more attention to it by pointing it out. Slip ups happen, and most of the time, people either don't notice, or if they have, they forget about it. But what do they do? Are they on the beaches? Are they in the bars, in the shopping centres? Do you see them going around outside of the New Town? Some years ago, I remember coming across a review of boy bars in Cebu which carried a preemptive advisory that said these bars are mostly patronised by Korean women and not to think they are aimed at gay males.

Love the turn of phrase.

The situation may not be as dire as first impressions from the story. Most likely there is a separate database that records and stores data pertaining to entry and exit: your passport number and dates. What they thought they had also stored (facepics and fingerprints) might not have been stored after the licence reached its limit. For most travellers who are honest, this should not be a problem. Perhaps those using new or multiple passports to evade detection of prior entries might benefit from the absence of identity matching that a biometric system is meant to provide. However, I saw that the airport authorities had been boasting of a biometric channel the last few months. I have never used it. If anyone here has, perhaps you can tell us whether you had to see a human after going through the biometric channel to get your passport stamped in/out (and maybe the officer made a data entry into the non biometric database of your entry or exit). If you didn't have to see an officer and didn't get a stamp on your passport, then it may be more serious. The process might have relied entirely on the biometric channel to record your in/out, and if the system was not storing that data, as reported, then one can imagine a lot of trouble ahead. Do read the second part of the Bangkok Post story too, about an alleged assassination attempt. This looks very serious.

One can be both. Remember fondly the old days and still look forward to the next trip. There are so many massage places to try!

I have noticed this too in my travels and bathhouse experiences in China, Korea and Japan. The really interetsing one was Tbilisi. AFAIK, there remains just one traditional bathhouse, operating in the same way as a Turkish hammam (Georgia was once part of the Ottoman empire). I have been to hammams in several ex-Ottoman countries, as far away as Morocco. All of them give out these red chequered tea-towel-like hip wraps, and it is just not the done thing to expose one's pubic region. In the steam rooms, everybody wears those towels. Even when they do a body scrub, the wrap stays on. They will not reach into the buttocks, lower abdomen or groin (hey, those areas need scrubbing too!) Except Tbilisi. Everything about that place -- and it's rather wretched, be warned -- said Turkish hammam, except that patrons walked around stark naked. Influence from Russian sauna? +1

Looking back, I feel quite conflicted over saunas. On the one hand, some of my most memorable encounters with strangers were in saunas. In Bangkok saunas, two such encounters (and we're talking decades ago) I still remember with great fondness. What was outstanding in both cases was the pillow talk that followed the already heavenly erotic exercise. One was an airline worker; the other was an executive in the financial sector. They had a fairly good command of English because of their professions and in each case, we must have spent an hour or more just chatting after juice than been spilled. None of the hundreds of gogobar or massage parlour encounters have ever come close to this level of satisfaction. I guess it's mostly because of the language gap. There have been other memorable sauna encounters, but they were not in Thailand (e.g. they were in Hong Kong, Singapore, Amsterdam and Paris), so I'll leave them out for now. On the other hand, there was also a lot of time wasting in saunas. As I grew older with a reducing number of other suana-goers even giving me a second look, this became such a serious issue that I hardly ever go to saunas nowadays. I know of friends of similar vintage who love the dark rooms where looks don't matter, and they still go regularly to saunas, but dark rooms are not my cup of tea. I think it also has to do with personality. There are those who enjoy the thrill of the chase (some members right here on this board), and there is me who is a bit of a stickler for efficiency and value-added (you may have noticed that every time I criticise Thai businesses). I also have two unusual anecdotes. There was one time (in Obelisk) when I was in the top floor jacuzzi, and who would show up but a guy I had been dating in my home country. We weren't fully an item yet (we would soon be, after) but there had been plenty of signals between us that we were becoming serious with each other. Even so, I didn't tell him I was going to Bangkok. He didn't tell me he was going to Bangkok. We only found out when he stood at the edge of the jauzzi with one foot down on the steps leading into the water, and me sitting amidst the bubbles on side opposite him, and him saying "Mack, what are you doing here?" He depolyed a somewhat accusatory tone in his voice. Like my mother! The other anecdote I have was in a dark room; alas I can't remember which sauna. There was this friend (from my home country) who had a month or so previously told me he was leaving for some place -- I can't remember where now, maybe the border areas of Burma where there are Christian communities -- to spend a few months as Christian missionary. I said goodbye and best of luck, tell me about your adventures when you get back. Sure, will do, he said. A month later, I was in a dark room of a Bangkok sauna, and it was one of the few occasions when I indulged in some unsighted groping. Got into heavy petting and much torso-rubbing with someone. This someone then felt we should take things further and in a more conducive environment such as a cabin. "Let's go to a cabin, shall we?" that unseen figure wrapped around me said. I recognised that voice. Quickly applying superglue to my own lips, I unlocked myself from that embrace. You can't imagine how agile I was in rushing out of the dark maze, ducking, twisting and weaving past other bodies with arms reaching out to grab my body parts as I made my way through the crowd. Hmmm... maybe that's why I have not been fond of dark rooms ever since.

I was confused. It felt like a typical flight within the U S of A.

Oh yes, one of the toilets was out of order throughout the entire flight. And the flight was late by 90 minutes.

Yes, in those days, there were two airlines. Thai International was the joint venture with SAS and only flew international routes. Thai Airways was the domestic carrier. I reckon SAS wouldn't have wanted to get involved in domestic routes within Thailand. In those days, virtually all airlines outside of the USA were State-owned and operated. So Thailand's 50% stake in Thai International (or was it 51%?) and 100% stake in Thai Airways would be held by the government of Thailand. The government then passed it on to the Air Force as part of the Air Force's fief. I obviously don't have proof, but I heard from several sources that only ex-Air Force pilots would be considered for Thai International's cockpit positions (not so sure about Thai Airways). I recently had the misfortune of flying Thai (economy) on an intra-SE Asia route. Just 2 - 3 hours. The seats were almost falling apart, with one of my armrests somewhat shaky at the hinge. Across the aisle, the seat wouldn't fully go back to the upright position to the annoyance of the passenger in the seat behind it. The movie options were hopelessly limited with mostly B-grade movies from 10 years ago. The music options even more pathetic, unless I am mistaken, there wasn't a classical music channel. The flight route app was not the kind where one could magnify, rotate the map etc through touching the screen. What you see was what you got. Period. Don't even get me started on the meal options; mostly carbo (noodles or steamed rice) with a tiny portion of meat. If I remember correctly, the main course was in cardboard boxes.

Oh, I just remembered. Among other fiefs given to the military was the right to operate a civilian airline. This was given to the Baron of the Royal Thai Air Force. Thai Airways was theirs until they ran it to the ground... I think the air force still has a stake in it, thus accounting for its continuing inefficiency as a business operation. Then there was the question of the civilian radio and tv airwaves spectrum. I don't know about the current situation, but not too long ago, the military controlled the rights to the spectrum. All radio and tv broadcasters had to pay the military for use of their radio bands. Until Thaksin came along, I think.

Indeed, the way the Thai military is set up, it is almost feudal. Centuries ago in Europe, kings never maintained large standing armies. As and when fighting forces were needed, kings would call upon their fiefs (barons, manorial lords, counts, dukes) to supply soldiers to whatever defence or offensive campaign the king wanted to launch. These feudal lords often had to finance their regiments themselves. “Private” soldiers were basically their serfs who were obliged to perform military service whenever called upon or mercenaries who had to be paid (thus the rank “private”) To enable the feudal lords to have the wherewithal to provide soldiers, the king would grant these lords longstanding rights to their assigned lands (fiefs). The lords essentially have the taxation rights and share of farm produce that those lands could yield. The Thai military operates in ways strikingly similar to this. The king (a century or more ago) carved out huge economic areas (including land rights) that the military could exploit to raise money for itself. The income earned is off the national budget. However, in the decades since, the idea that revenue accrued from economic uses of fief lands would help pay for army personnel and equipment has since been corrupted. Now the revenue is also used to pay for generals’ (and their wives’) lavish lifestyles. It is hardly surprising that the military would brook no interference from other baronial lords (be they the modern police, city mayors, party leaders, even sitting cabinet ministers) with their fiefdom. Such interference is seen as an existential threat. Read this article: https://fulcrum.sg/thailands-new-defence-minister-keeping-the-armed-forces-sweet/ It points out that until 2023, 58 previous defence ministers were serving military officers. Only 5 were civilian, but they were concurrently prime ministers. No government apparently dared to appoint a civilian as defence minister to oversee that fief, unless the PM himself took the job (and probably wouldn’t have much time to interfere in military affairs). The aborted expansion of U-Tapao airport is case in point. It sits on military land, with huge tracts of surrounding areas also military. It was all every well for the civilian government to announce an expansion of the airport to boost tourism to the Pattaya and Ranong region, but as far as the military was concerned, this would only eat into their land holdings, with new revenue perhaps flowing out to the Airports Authority, non-military agencies, airlines and private businesses (King Power group, anyone?). Hardly a surprise to hear that airport expansion is now on hold. Perhaps furious negotiations are underway as to what percentage share of revenues from the expanded airport should flow back to the barons-with-many-medals-on-their chests?