Londoner

It seems now we have passed a  generation to 2024 we have more guys who do sex work part time and have other jobs ,I even noticed this more with guys in Pattaya
So these guys some who are straight are not as desperate as the ones 20 years ago so they need proper remuneration
Some of you complain that you weny to a Go Go bars and saw guys in their 40's dancing etc like one recent post and complaining, 
So my point is ,sometimes I see stingy farangs  on here saying how happy they were to pay 500 baht and complaining the 20yo twink who goes to uni  part time wanted 1500b in Bangkok ,how dare he !
For fxcks sake , if you want hot young  guys you need to pay ,they ain't coming for little money ,stop being stingy and complaining! 
This is a business , everyone has their price ,even Vinapu😂
Then you wonder why there is a shortage of young twinks

Newbies welcome. To Thailand and to this forum. If hairybearberlin has 50% of the fun I've had, he'll be happy....and I'll be happy to answer his questions if others don't do so before me.

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered.
As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

Newbies welcome. To Thailand and to this forum. If hairybearberlin has 50% of the fun I've had, he'll be happy....and I'll be happy to answer his questions if others don't do so before me.

A smile is indeed pivotal. The smile can be read in a myriad of ways -- a) thank goodness I will get relief from my boring job, b) some much needed money might be coming my way, c) this customer seems like an honest, "jai dee" person, or d) I've learned that smiles are good for business. Of course you never quite know which of these meanings to attach to the smile, until you try. Of course one would hope it is meaning (c).

Just approach them. Once they realise you're a customer a few of them will smile. Always pick one of those smiling, chances are you'll have a better time. 

I don't think you need to apologise!

You've received very sound advice above that covers everything you're likely to encounter on your trip. Macaron's is certainly the most detailed and comprehensive. You won't go wrong with his tip suggestions.
The only thing that I'd add is to go in feeling comfortable and at ease. If the first thing your masseur does when he enters the room is smile and introduce himself, that's an encouraging sign. If he doesn't, don't hesitate to smile and introduce yourself and offer to shake hands. Say your name and ask him his. Most guys will have enough English for that exchange. Then allow the experience to unfold.
Actually, that's the signal that your tip recommendations represent the mainstream of practice. The sign of a true consensus is when what you say fully satisfies no one on either side of the debate. 🙂

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered.
As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered.
As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered.
As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered.
As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered.
As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered.
As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered.
As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

Some good advice here; I hope newtobangkok12 feels that his questions have been answered.
As a general point, we should be welcoming newbies both to Gay Thailand and to this forum. Neither will survive without such people.

@newtobangkok123 in Thailand's massage parlours, whether it's a place primarily for legit massages or one primarily for erotic massages, the client makes two payments. The first is to the shop. The amount will be based on the their price list depending on the service you choose. You know that already. Some shops require you to pay before the session begins, other shops are happy to take payment (for the shop) after the session.
The second payment is directly from you to the service provider. It is always made AFTER the session. Your chief question is how to know how much.
First of all, not all massage places publish minimum tips. Some do, some don't. Legit massage places almost never publish minimum tips. Erotic massage places mostly do nowadays, or if they do not publish them publicly, the receptionist will whisper to you as you pay the shop's fee. Or, there will be something stated as a footnote on the menu card. Just be alert and pay attention. The rule of thumb is that any place with a stated minimum, however stated - whether publicly published, whispered or footnoted - you can assume to be an erotic massage place where the service provider expects that you would want a happy ending, or at least to get hard.
So, to your question: Once I know the minimum tip, does this tip include the happy ending?  the answer is Yes. Also, even if you decline the offer of a happy ending during the session, the minimum applies. That's simple enough
However, regular visitors to massage parlours do not always pay just the minimum. The "how much" gets trickier. If it's a handjob, something like the minimum, plus a bit more (20%?) if you're orgasmically over the moon, will be fine. But if it was mediocre, just pay the minimum. More often than not, there is no discussion about handjobs; the service provider proceeds towards it, and you have to stop him if you do not want the session to go in that direction.
If you're into plugging holes, you will probably be having a brief discussion in the room regarding who does what to whose hole, and in the course of that discussion, the service provider may mention a figure perhaps 25-50% higher than the previously stated minimum. Naturally, if you agree, that's the new minimum for your session. (If he quotes a new figure that is 75 - 100% above the pre-session minimum, I am likely to turn it down, as such a high mark-up probably indicates an unwillingness to go that route.) Whatever you've agreed, you can tip another 20-30% more above that new minimum if you're intoxicated with delight from his services (but they don't expect that). If for some reason, there is no discussion about any new minimum, then if he bottoms, you can still use the above percentages as a guide, i.e. anything from 25 - 50% above the minimum that was stated pre-session. If he tops. I think the pre-session minimum is still the reference level (but this is not an area I am familiar with).
If it's a legit massage, my practice is to think in terms of maximum tip and then discount from there. If it was an excellent legit massage, I would apply the maximum, which would be an amount for the service provider that is the same quantum as what the shop charged for the session. However, if it was legit, but substandard, then I start discounting from the maximum. Example: I book a legit massage for 700 baht. If the guy delivers a very good massage, he gets 700 too. If not so good, then 600, or 500 and so on.
What happens if, in what looks like a legit place, the service provider also delivers a handjob in the privacy of the room? If there was a discussion in the room, then all's clear. If no discussion, then I tend to tip some kind of industry average for handjob, which, in Bangkok (since you asked about Bangkok), may be in the 1000 - 1200 range.
As with all conversations about appropriate tips, this post is going to get wild reactions from other members of the board. Some will say my ranges are too high and I am spoiling the market. More likely, others will pick up a megaphone and decry what a cheapskate I am. Without knowing who I am or which country I come from, they will say that (a) I come from a rich country, (b) I am perforce rich, and (c) I am a disgrace to humanity for failing to throw money around like Mansa Musa on his pilgrimage to Mecca.
All I can say is that my rules of thumb have worked for the hundreds of massages I have had over decades, and no service provider has said - not to my face at least - I tip too little. I simply don't believe in bragging about my wealth (if any) by showing off. I was raised by parents who taught me that showing off is very crass.

Welcome to the forums.  Don't let a troll ... bully you out of here.  Give it some time for participants to offer meaningful comments / advice - point you in the right direction.  If you haven't spent the time to read through the many archived discussions, some of which answer newbie questions, please do so.  

Yes I read it and lots of other stuff, but I still didn't understand, so I asked a question to clarify. 
I'm still not clear on whether parlours that do not ask for tips are "that kind" of parlour, hence my follow-up question.
The forum is currently accepting new registrations so I did not think being a new member was a problem. I apologize.

Caveat emptor. I've said this before , but here goes....
In this game, the buyer always takes a risk. I recall taking guys back to the hotel after enjoying all sorts of clandestine festivities and salacious hints in the bar, captivated by  their  good looks and apparent willingness. And then, even walking back along Surawong or wherever, noticing a distinct change in attitude. Less accommodating, you could say. This followed by doing the absolute basics in the room, collecting the money (once or twice even neglecting to shower)  before rushing back to the bar for assignation number two. Or three.
Even the most experienced of us cannot be sure.  As for today's market, I am certainly aware of old photos being used on- line. Inaccurate descriptions, promised activities denied and much else. Sometimes, it has to be admitted, by falangs  themselves.... or so I'm told.
And my answer is always the same. It's part of the game; live with it and  "move on" to the next guy. He may turn out to be a stunner....or even a life partner!
Punters should also remember that the guys themselves take risks. Is this kindly  falang in the photo or the bar a wannabee Hannibal Lector? will  he demand activities I don't like? will he pay what I need? or what I was promised? will he even be clean?
if you play the game, you must accept that occasionally- in my experience very rarely- you will sometimes lose or have to be satisfied with a draw.

Caveat emptor. I've said this before , but here goes....
In this game, the buyer always takes a risk. I recall taking guys back to the hotel after enjoying all sorts of clandestine festivities and salacious hints in the bar, captivated by  their  good looks and apparent willingness. And then, even walking back along Surawong or wherever, noticing a distinct change in attitude. Less accommodating, you could say. This followed by doing the absolute basics in the room, collecting the money (once or twice even neglecting to shower)  before rushing back to the bar for assignation number two. Or three.
Even the most experienced of us cannot be sure.  As for today's market, I am certainly aware of old photos being used on- line. Inaccurate descriptions, promised activities denied and much else. Sometimes, it has to be admitted, by falangs  themselves.... or so I'm told.
And my answer is always the same. It's part of the game; live with it and  "move on" to the next guy. He may turn out to be a stunner....or even a life partner!
Punters should also remember that the guys themselves take risks. Is this kindly  falang in the photo or the bar a wannabee Hannibal Lector? will  he demand activities I don't like? will he pay what I need? or what I was promised? will he even be clean?
if you play the game, you must accept that occasionally- in my experience very rarely- you will sometimes lose or have to be satisfied with a draw.

Caveat emptor. I've said this before , but here goes....
In this game, the buyer always takes a risk. I recall taking guys back to the hotel after enjoying all sorts of clandestine festivities and salacious hints in the bar, captivated by  their  good looks and apparent willingness. And then, even walking back along Surawong or wherever, noticing a distinct change in attitude. Less accommodating, you could say. This followed by doing the absolute basics in the room, collecting the money (once or twice even neglecting to shower)  before rushing back to the bar for assignation number two. Or three.
Even the most experienced of us cannot be sure.  As for today's market, I am certainly aware of old photos being used on- line. Inaccurate descriptions, promised activities denied and much else. Sometimes, it has to be admitted, by falangs  themselves.... or so I'm told.
And my answer is always the same. It's part of the game; live with it and  "move on" to the next guy. He may turn out to be a stunner....or even a life partner!
Punters should also remember that the guys themselves take risks. Is this kindly  falang in the photo or the bar a wannabee Hannibal Lector? will  he demand activities I don't like? will he pay what I need? or what I was promised? will he even be clean?
if you play the game, you must accept that occasionally- in my experience very rarely- you will sometimes lose or have to be satisfied with a draw.

Caveat emptor. I've said this before , but here goes....
In this game, the buyer always takes a risk. I recall taking guys back to the hotel after enjoying all sorts of clandestine festivities and salacious hints in the bar, captivated by  their  good looks and apparent willingness. And then, even walking back along Surawong or wherever, noticing a distinct change in attitude. Less accommodating, you could say. This followed by doing the absolute basics in the room, collecting the money (once or twice even neglecting to shower)  before rushing back to the bar for assignation number two. Or three.
Even the most experienced of us cannot be sure.  As for today's market, I am certainly aware of old photos being used on- line. Inaccurate descriptions, promised activities denied and much else. Sometimes, it has to be admitted, by falangs  themselves.... or so I'm told.
And my answer is always the same. It's part of the game; live with it and  "move on" to the next guy. He may turn out to be a stunner....or even a life partner!
Punters should also remember that the guys themselves take risks. Is this kindly  falang in the photo or the bar a wannabee Hannibal Lector? will  he demand activities I don't like? will he pay what I need? or what I was promised? will he even be clean?
if you play the game, you must accept that occasionally- in my experience very rarely- you will sometimes lose or have to be satisfied with a draw.

Caveat emptor. I've said this before , but here goes....
In this game, the buyer always takes a risk. I recall taking guys back to the hotel after enjoying all sorts of clandestine festivities and salacious hints in the bar, captivated by  their  good looks and apparent willingness. And then, even walking back along Surawong or wherever, noticing a distinct change in attitude. Less accommodating, you could say. This followed by doing the absolute basics in the room, collecting the money (once or twice even neglecting to shower)  before rushing back to the bar for assignation number two. Or three.
Even the most experienced of us cannot be sure.  As for today's market, I am certainly aware of old photos being used on- line. Inaccurate descriptions, promised activities denied and much else. Sometimes, it has to be admitted, by falangs  themselves.... or so I'm told.
And my answer is always the same. It's part of the game; live with it and  "move on" to the next guy. He may turn out to be a stunner....or even a life partner!
Punters should also remember that the guys themselves take risks. Is this kindly  falang in the photo or the bar a wannabee Hannibal Lector? will  he demand activities I don't like? will he pay what I need? or what I was promised? will he even be clean?
if you play the game, you must accept that occasionally- in my experience very rarely- you will sometimes lose or have to be satisfied with a draw.

I like Bangkok Air too. The only problem I have with them is that they seem to have regular data breaches. Within a few years I was informed already twice about a data breach. The first one also included credit card data. The other one was just very recently.
Or maybe they are the only airline who report about data breaches and the other airlines don't ?