BL8gPt

Last night, November 10, 2019,  Panorama held a grand opening.  Food was provided by Poseidon restaurant in Jomtien Complex.
The food was delicious and a farang chef was in attendance.  It felt like the peak of high season as every table was full with a large
crowd of farangs and Asians..  It was a smashing success!  Live music and singing for hours.  

wise words
I'd advice to employ  general rule to engage in graphic interaction in the bar only if a guy actually initiates it by lowering his briefs for example or placing one's hand THERE.

Me personally I've never had any hassle from the Mama's in Screw-boys, if anything they go out of their way to make sure I'm happy, if I need them...they're around but other than that I just sort myself out or one of my regular Viets will give me a few tips on who they think i'll like (although that's generally one of their newly arrived friends that they're trying to 'pimp me out' to...lol)
I would also add a note of caution that please don't expect that every guy you come across will want to engage in 'wild patron-boy' action inside the bar, they're often within eye shot of their friends and don't want to loose face in front of them.  They're all different and from different back-grounds and some would much prefer to engage in action with you in the privacy of your nice condo / hotel room rather than a gogo bar.

As several other posters said above...those 3 bars are renown for their Twink type guys, or what I refer to as 'Pocket Twinks / Swimmers body' types...not heavily muscular.   Generally if the guys want to build themselves up they'll move on from those bars to say Jupiter where they know there's more chance of getting an off with that type of look.
Plus as the wise old saying goes...'it aint what you got...its how you use it'...me personally I'm much more interested in the whole package as in nice body but also good character / fun personality and 'good heart' as the Thai boys would say.

I like that way of thinking , either we use real name,  number  or nick and omit explicit part or we hide identity / I like your Perfect, Runner Up,  Sex God etc substitutes / and then reveal true nature of world peace discussion with guys.

OMG, i should have known you all such helpful guys. Just finished my trip to Thailand and now in Vietnam for few days.

Of course, i knew Pattaya and went there several times and as usual, it's a great place for fun and relax. But to be honest, after some trips to Thailand ("Thailand" herein is inclusive word referring to most of big touristy cities in Thailand ) , i feel i little much of commercial gay activities. Pubs, gogo bars, take boys to hotel and have fun..., all do great to me but more and more, i want to see more local gay things (assume that local gay life differs from what they show to tourists).

Just visited Phahol Yothin theatre near Saphan Khwai =))) last Thursday and you know what, so muchhhh fun in there  =))). One guy did cum-control to me and Jesus, that was my best 20 minutes ever in my life =))
 

I stayed for a few days at the Zing in the Jomtien Complex during my current trip. Extremely good value and it has a useful size pool for swimming. It’s a favourite of Gays including myself. 

here is some more anecdotal evidence about the safety and honesty of Thais in general: when people on motorcycles park their bikes, they ALWAYS leave the helmets just hanging on the mirror or similar. NOBODY, EVER, locks it to their bike or in the compartment under the seat. Neither do I with my bike/helmet. That's unheard of in other countries, including all of Europe. Never are any helmets stolen here, though.
However, there is ONE serious safety risk in Bangkok that the OP should be worried about (pretty much the only one, really): a sprained ankle from the notoriously treacherous sidewalks of Bangkok, with loose tiles, potholes and unexpected poles to bump into when looking at one's phone (or companion) and whatever else. That's a REAL risk in Bangkok, unlike all the others he has posted about.
Now with that in mind he should stop worrying, go with the flow and have fun.

Its a gay forum focusing on gay sex tourism, talking mainly about gay/boy hunting and hiring gogo boys and masseurs. If anything, those who didnt share the intimate part, didnt do so because they are uncomfortable sharing that part. But i dont think anyone is u comfortable in reading them or else they probably wont be here. Just keep writing however you feel comfortable.

do not worry about that. In THIS forum nobody will be "offended" by such content. If in the unlikely event that someone is, then that's HIS problem (easily solved by not reading such content), not yours. 

Again, this is only what I found as useful for me.
 
DivineMadman’s motto: “Don't over-think; Be open; Be kind. Have fun.”
Preparations before you go:
Hygene yourself as before a romantic date.
Place all valuables in safe.
Have small bills for tips and charges (from 20 to 1000), and know what the rates are.
At the bar:
“Confidently walk into the bar, and have no fear. People go to these bars to off lads, so do not be shy. Never look like a newbie. If asked by staff how many times you’ve been to Thailand, your answer should be ”five”. If you like the bar, sit down & order a drink; if the boys are not to your liking, it’s OK to walk straight back out. 
In order to not appear like a first-timer, always insist on picking your preferred seat by yourself: usually at the back, a bit away from the stage but with clear view of it and sometimes a bonus view of the boys changing area or gym. Some bars also have upstairs seating that is worth checking out. Try to find place where you can have space for a boy to sit next to you if you plan to do that.  
If you arrive late after the show had finished and only want to off a guy, it’s worth saying that to the mamasan thus avoiding pay for drink/entrance. Bars are usually more flexible when it’s about closing time, especially when it’s low season.
Do not trust the mamasans; well some are OK, but understand that some say anything to make a sale. The mamasans or waiters may sit down and start talking to you. if you don’t want them there, ask them to go. If they stay, they’ll expect a tip.
Enjoy the boys. If you identify a boy you like, you can either engage the mamasan to bring him over, or wave the boy over to sit with you. If a boy sits with you without invitation, feel free to politely ask him to move on & don’t tip him.” 
Employ usual precautions with your valuables, but don’t distress yourself too much. Thailand is a safe country; boys are much more honest than their counterparts in most countries; and there are (almost) no reports of pickpocketing, theft and the like.
Factors to consider when selecting a boy: eye contact; smile; behavior with other boys or patrons; sitting close; body language intimacy; his English; kisses; physical contact; gropes. He might be shy in certain aspects, but if he’s off in most/all the above – he isn’t the One.
“After introducing yourselves & making polite conversation, if you want to off him – ask what he likes and doesn’t like in bed. If you have specific needs, check each one with him. Make sure there is no hesitancy in his replies. For example, if you have doubts about his willingness to kiss, ask to kiss him there. Some might not like doing that in the gogo bar, so I’m not sure refusal should rule him out. OTOH, if he makes a really good effort – you can remove any doubts about that, which helps to rule him in.
Maybe try some discrete fondling. Be aware that acceptable behavior varies from bar to bar. In certain bars, the boys will get everything out only on stage. In others: they will strip off & sit on your lap naked, then if you really desire – suck you off in the bar. However, in the majority of gogo bars, the boys usually keep everything in their underwear & keep up appearances on the premises. If in doubt, watch what’s going on with other patrons, or wait for the boy to make the first risqué move.”
ASK HIM WHAT HIS RATE IS. “If he asks for too much (for you), counter with a lower offer. If he won’t settle at a reasonable price for you, avoid prolonged haggling. If you decide not to off the boy, politely tip him (100-150) and send him away.”
Make politely clear to him that if he doesn’t perform as agreed, he won’t be paid per agreement. For example: “no power, no money....if it doesn't get hard, I'm not paying.”
Finally, “check his ID card to ensure he is 18 (including that his  picture matches his face) BEFORE paying any off fee!”
It’s acceptable to politely inquire if other staff members at the bar (waiter, barman, mamasan, DJ) are also for offing.
At the hotel:
Show respect for the boy on the way to the room, and in the room: continue polite conversation; offer to buy him a snack, or give him something from the minibar; invite him to shower first (if not together); etc.”
In a few hotels, he might have to register at reception. 
“When you off him the first time, don’t hurry with a promise to off him again; a ‘maybe’ is enough.  OTOH, if you are impressed with the boy & want to see him again, you may want to secure the next appointment right there in your room before he leaves. 
Tips are paid before he departs. You should have planned carefully so you have the exact notes to pay him exactly what you intend (and extra if he deserves it).”
And again - DivineMadman’s motto: “Don't over-think; Be open; Be kind. Have fun.”
 
Most of the quotes above are by z909 from: 
 

Concentration and summary of inputs from blog, forums, posts and PMs. Again, no personal experience as yet.
 
Massage explainer on ShamelessMack’s blog: https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/massage-glossary/
"Prince, Hero, and tons of others. Massage minimum tip is often 1000 or 1500 depending on the place, and then a fee for the room 500-800 depending as well. In all the above, find a mamasan you like and have them give advice. Or have someone interpret for you."
The Prince Men’s Spa gets most votes, though it’s expensive and there is at least one report on cramped room and leaky AC. Oil massage 60 minutes: 1,100 baht, minimum tip 1,200 baht.
"For hygiene and facilities  my vote goes to MyHero in Sukhumvit soi 11,  bit of a distance from Silom ghetto but easy to get to. Like Prince, they tend to glance over the massage part and go to second act as fast as possible."
"The highly rated (on Travelgayasia) Magic Touch opens at 10:00 each day. Not much choice in the first few hours. Easy to find; it’s off the soi that runs up the side of Le Meridian hotel."
"Paradise  on Silom Soi 6 opens at 10am (according to google). It's not a full-service gay shop as Prince or Arena or Senso, but it's very gay nonetheless, meaning "things" WILL happen there….."
"Senso: 60 minutes’ oil massage was priced at 1,000 baht with a recommended minimum tip of 1,200 baht." 
"Tarntawan Massage, not to be confused with Tawan Massage inside Soi Tarntawan. About 12 service providers visible from the front of shop, majority of which were men. Foot massage: 250 baht for 60 minutes. Baby oil massage: 500 baht for 60 minutes." Small shower, low water pressure.
"Bangkok Massage is in the epicenter of action, right under  Lucky Boys. Along with Arena and Senso open early afternoon, like 2 or 3 p.m. 
Adam and Nakarat may be opening earlier, like noonish."
VK / VCK / CK – less recommended, as is Indra.

After initiating 9 threads and pouring questions ad nauseam, it’s time to start giving back. Below is a concentration and summary of what I’ve gleaned from blog, forums, posts and PMs. Hope this might be useful for pre-BKK newbies like me. This isn’t a definitive tutorial, but rather what I understand to be useful info for me.
Quotation marks aren’t associated with contributors. Sorry about that; the idea of publishing my tutorial came to me too late for researching footnotes. Kudos go to: vinapu, drimvoiz, ggobbk, macaroni, divinemadman, spoon, patanawet, jasper, gerefen, boy69, z909, zoomy02, and others unmentioned. I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PATIENT GENEROUSITY, AND FOR MAKING MY UPCOMING VISIT THAT MUCH BETTER.   (-:    
 
“Before you go exploring gogo/off bars, why not go for an early drink and maybe meal in Silom Soi 4 – the gay soi – to soak up some of the atmosphere and meet someone to ask their experiences. Balcony Pub opens at 5.30 pm (but is quiet till about 8 then very busy by 10 for their free show at 10:45 with Coyote boys and cabaret). Connection, Welcome and Telephone Pub – all on the same soi – have similar opening times and prices.”
Bar explainer on ShamelessMack’s blog: https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/bar-glossary/
Bar rates: entry/drink – 350; tip boy for short sit-down – 150; tip for mamasans – 100 (only if they helped and weren’t pesty); off – 500 (maybe less); tip for ST (Short Term 45-90 minutes) – 1500-2000 (more toward 2000).
Jupiter and Moonlight consider themselves and/or really are “classy” (e.g. boy “models” and their shows may be “the best”) and are more expensive: entry for Jupiter is 500; drink in Moonlight is 450. Maybe so is Tawan because of the “muscle hunks” there, but “many of the hotter guys that worked there have apparently moved on to Jupiter and Moonlight”.
The main batch of regular (i.e. not "classy") bars close together is (in apparent order of popularity): Lucky Boys, Screw Boys (“badgering mamasans”), Fresh Boys, Dream Boys, and maybe Banana Boys (“very crowded benches”). Southward are Tawan, Nature Boy, Golden Cock, Hotmale (apparently already “tired”). “In Lucky, Screw and Banana boys are more engaging. In Dream, Jupiter  and Moonlight guys are less engaging but hotter.”
Apparently “Tawan , Screw, Golden Cock and Nature are more adventurous (allowing wild patron-boy action while seating); Dream, Moonlight, Hotmale, Jupiter – not so”
Mamasans can be helpful in finding the right boy for you, but they might also have ulterior motives including tips for themselves. Don’t let them badger you into sitting with them. Mamasans recommended for reliablility: Neung at Jupiter and Emmy at Moonlight.
“For offing a guy, Monday night is the night you'll have the least amount of competition. Weekend nights bars are crowded.” 
“Babylon. 5-9 PM on Saturdays and Sundays are the best time to be there.” 
 

From Bangkok Post
Rivers, lakes and canals around the country will be illuminated by candlelight as Thais release a series of lotus-inspired floats in order to ask forgiveness from the Water Goddess for their infringements during the much-loved Loy Krathong Festival.
If you wish to join in with the celebrations, here are several venues offering a wide choice of cultural performances, traditional rituals, fireworks and creative workshops from tomorrow until Monday.
Bangkok 
From Nov 9 to 11, the Tourism Authority of Thailand will turn Santi Chaiprakan Park into an entertainment hub for its "Delightful Colour Of The River, Loy Krathong Festival".
Visitors can walk through a colourful water tunnel, then take a front-row seat to watch a traditional fireworks show. There will be a pavilion full of fun cultural activities for all the family, including creative workshops on how to make a krathong with natural materials, cooking traditional Thai delicacies, arranging floral garlands, carving fruit and banana stalks and making khon masks.
About Santi Chaiprakan Park
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santichaiprakarn_Park
Elsewhere about Thailand 
https://www.bangkokpost.com/life/social-and-lifestyle/1789954/loy-krathong-around-thailand#cxrecs_s

it's tempting to say , many of their patrons are surprisingly honest too.
being moneyboy does not make one more prone to dishonesty  IMNSHO.
In 20 trips I had only one case when guy, who was a bit drunk , took visible interest in my shirt pocket  so I felt bit  dis-comfortable . It was in Happy Boys , now defunct bar in Sunny Plaza vicinity. Other than that never ever  in bar or massage I had any problems. It's one of reasons I like Thailand , never need to look behind my back.
Still basic sensible precaution  should be taken, no need to take wad of 20 1000 baht notes when visiting bar although 20 20 baht notes may help, particularly in Nice Boys , Sunee 

With respect, both for security and under age reasons checking ID and registering at reception is an important safeguard and I am surprised anyone would consider otherwise.
I do not "go" with anyone unless I am satisfied they have proper ID and are adult.

Testimonial on Mike's tour:
Mike's profile: https://siamroads.com/mike-guide-bangkok-thailand/

Judging by what I’ve observed—and practiced—at Luckyboys and others places, the incremental red notes the guys collect in tips are becoming an ever increasing share of their overall income. 
They realize that they can easily cover their daily living expenses (food, transportation and time with friends after work) by sitting with a handful of customers and sharing small talk and some physical contact for short periods. 
It’s a win-win for all concerned. The customer gets a nice experience (and the opportunity to interview different guys), the bar gets the drink income and the boy gets tips—and a possible off on a return visit. 
No, it doesn’t provide same same financial punch that a ST offers but it does cover some costs.
Waiters long ago figured this out and acquire a more consistent income along with the possibility of the occasional off.
And for me at least it’s a lot more entertaining than scanning through the on-line offerings.
 

Absolutely right.  What the boy does with the money is nobody's business but his own.  I can't think of any job where how much the payee should receive is based upon what the payer thinks he will do with the money. 
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't understand farang who spend a lot of money just on airfare alone going to Thailand, stay in nice hotels, enjoy good food in expensive restaurants, drink as if the world will end tomorrow, and then try to justify giving as little as they can get away with to the boys.  And meanwhile the boys are the reason these same farang go to Thailand in the first place.
If you don't want to pay these boys 1000 to 1500 baht, which is a hell of a lot less than you would pay anywhere else, for what they do for you, then stay home and masturbate to a porn site.

Answer yes.  Both are true.
Do whatever you feel comfortable with.  Personally, I don't involve mamasans in any of my decisions, but I do make a point of trying to be nice to the mamasans (with the exception of a few at Lucky Boys who I just aggressively ignore).  
I would get a guy's attention and have him sit for a drink and then find out if he's right or not right for me.  Waiters can also help get a guy's attention to sit with you, but I've usually found the guys very attentive and looking to me for a signal to come down.  Repeat that process two or three times if necessary.  Occasionally I suppose it's expensive because it might involve buying a few extra drinks and little thank-you-for-sitting-with-me tips, but I just don't ask a mamasan for a recommendation.  Anyway, after a while at a bar I think you sort of know who you at least want to try to talk to without any input from anyone else.  
[Personally, and this is probably just me, I find it a bit off-putting and demeaning for all concerned when a mamasan scrambles around the bar to grab different guys to parade in front of a customer.]
But to each his own, and I suppose if you are shy they can help.  Mammasans try to insinuate themselves into the process because that's their job.  No hard feelings any which way.
Having said that, they can make the lives of the guys who work at the bar better (or worse).  So, particularly if you want your guy to look good for his boss and maybe get a tad bit better treatment at a bar, it helps to cultivate a mammasan.  

I too find the convenient cynicism of a minority of punters disheartening. I learned a lot from P when we met in 2003  and from his friends, too.  Firstly, that the imperative- both religious and social- to send money to parents was overwhelming  and that some guys would prefer to go hungry than fail in this responsibility. Secondly, that the guys looked after each other and so if one was going through a bad time in terms of "offs", his friends would take care of him.
It may be that things have change on the scene now  and I suspect that some of the more popular guys in the big Bangkok bars where Chinese clients are dominant are doing very well nowadays. However, in the period when I was  a punter, the one way out of the industry and the achievement of  relative comfort was to find a falang (or falangs) who' go the extra mile in terms of support.

I just rant.  Certainly not aimed at you.  Feel free to ignore.
Personally, I don't think any of us needs to say that each interaction with the guys is a pity party and you or I or anyone should throw money at the guys like some grand wealth redistribution plan.  (Not that I am saying that is what you are saying you would do. )  There's dignity and respect in paying a fair price for services.  Instead, the cautionary note is none of us should think that the guys will really just waste the money anyway, so cheapness is really justified.   Sometimes I worry that some customers have almost a resentment towards the guys - maybe because they have to pay?? - and that resentment then leads to a pervasive thinking that the guys are [insert any one of a number of negative adjectives].  
As to the stories - If someone starts telling me a sob story I just tune it out.  That's why I say I think it takes time to get to know the guys and then it's just more natural to learn their stories.

Most of the guys I know send money home.  
It really doesn't require much of a mental effort to think about circumstances the guys come from.  
Young guys from Cambodia are the children (or in some cases grandchildren) of Khmer Rouge survivors.  Imagine the circumstances in Cambodia when they were born 22-25 years ago and that their families live in even now.  I know many are sending money home to build the first livable homes for their family and are sending their younger brothers and sisters to school.  
If you take some time out from the pleasure domes and get to know some of the Myanmar guys, you will find out much the same.  Many guys are from villages where even now there is no electricity.  Spend some time talking and you might find out that waiter serving you spent his time as a stateless Akha family, quite literally foraging for food in the forest.
The same is all true Laos guys and the Vietnamese guys.  I (and others here) know a Laos guy who came from a family with no land, so he actually bought a home for his family.  A lot of Laos guys will remember when their villages first got electricity.  
I think all of us who the spend the time really hanging out with these guys, in non-sexual situations even (gasp!), respect them and their commitment to family.  The idea that they're going to say "no, I'm not going to send my mom 2,000 baht this month because I'm going to invest in a mutual fund" is just nonsense.  Setting aside money as savings is a luxury these guys and their families just don't have.
Definitely they're young guys.  They want nice shiny phones and some nice freshly-torn jeans.  And there are some guys (a few) who even have motorbikes, etc.  I certainly don't begrudge them that.  I have a lot of sympathy for what they put up with, so let them have their joys.  
People who spend -- objectively speaking -- a lot of money to fly around the world to come to Thailand or Cambodia or wherever to PAY to have sex with young guys who otherwise wouldn't want to have sex with them really cannot claim some sort fiscal prudence superiority.  
Not everyone has extra cash to be generous with their money.  But there's no excuse not to have generosity of spirit.

It appears the Immigration Police have raided Prince again.  This time looks a bit more serious and some guys were handed over to the police for drug use.
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1132758-attractive-men-in-underpants-arrested-right-under-the-noses-of-immigration-police/
 

Samui island!
Siamroads announces new location: Samui and our first guide and companion there Ten.
Ten is 29 yo guide, concierge and companion on Samui island, Thailand Hobbies: fitness, swimming, singing and dancing. Languages: English (School), Thai. Ten's English isn't perfect but that is compensated by his kindness. Ten is very friendly and love his wok a lot.
Full profile and more photos are here: https://siamroads.com/samui-guide-ten-thailand/