macaroni21

I would also add that if a bar has a significant number of Japanese customers, it will make sense to collect the tip upfront. This is the practice in Japan, and so, Japanese customers would be more comfortable about it because it signals to them that the bar management takes responsibility for the quality of services provided. It's kind of opposite to the situation where a bar says, what happens after you leave the bar is between you and boy (both in terms of service and remuneration) and we wash our hands of it.

This is very interesting. It's a site for Asian travellers (I suspect majority Japanese) judging by the handles used by those posting comments, and by the fact that it offers automatic translation into Japanese, Mainland Chinese, Taiwanese Chinese, Korean and English (cool use of technology). I think it charges businesses for advertising/listing.
It's great to see sites catering to Asian travellers. They are the one who will keep gay businesses in Asia alive and well.
 

I agree with @12is12  You've written the post in a manner that simply recounts the facts and lets the facts speak for themselves. Indeed, it serves as a cautionary tale for others.  You've also been very fair by describing how the mamasan resolved the matter promptly and satisfactorily. Thank you.
What remains as a bit of a  mystery is how the upfront payment of 1500 baht for "tip" was even requested in the bar itself before you set off for your hotel. Was it condoned by the mamasan? Paid to the mamasan/bar cashier? Or paid to another boy for "safekeeping" for Jack? If the latter, it would be suspicious.
That said, over 20 years ago, I did have a similar experience, where a bar on Sukhumvit Soi 23 (Bangkok) told me that their practice was to collect the tip in the bar itself before the boy goes off with me. I thought it strange then, but the bar manager explained it something along these lines: (a) the boy should have no reason to ask for more money at the end of the session, (b) if the boy does not perform, come back to the bar the next evening and let us know; we will not transfer the pre-deposited tip to the boy.
In that instance, the boy did well and I had no reason to go back to the back the next evening. But till now, it remained the only time ever that I have encountered such a practice of collecting the tip upfront.
So, what I am saying is that this practice of collecting the tip upfront may be rare, but is not unknown. And if the bar is a reputed one (which Circle Pub seems to be), it may be for a good reason - as your own experience has shown.
 

Hmmm... The clues:
1. Soi Nana.
2. Five a.m.
3. Ability to mobilise 100 sisters within a day.
Professional jealousy perhaps?

Hmmm... The clues:
1. Soi Nana.
2. Five a.m.
3. Ability to mobilise 100 sisters within a day.
Professional jealousy perhaps?

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

So, the next time we use OneSpa's rooms, we may meet a woman in the corridor? Or we may hear a woman moaning away in the next room? 
Hmmm. I think I will pass

So, the next time we use OneSpa's rooms, we may meet a woman in the corridor? Or we may hear a woman moaning away in the next room? 
Hmmm. I think I will pass

I am more concerned about short transit times than about overnight flights. Nowadays, some airports can be terribly congested and there are infinite reasons for delays. I've had an occasion when I had to run to the departing gate because the arriving flight was late. I made it and was proud of myself. But at the final destination, I was told my luggage didn't make it. "Maybe it will arrive tomorrow".
So if needed to avoid a short transit time, I would even choose an overnight flight.
 

I am more concerned about short transit times than about overnight flights. Nowadays, some airports can be terribly congested and there are infinite reasons for delays. I've had an occasion when I had to run to the departing gate because the arriving flight was late. I made it and was proud of myself. But at the final destination, I was told my luggage didn't make it. "Maybe it will arrive tomorrow".
So if needed to avoid a short transit time, I would even choose an overnight flight.
 

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sadly, @Riobard is referring to the tops of the beer bottles. The boys' tops (Tshirts) often stay on.
Remind me again - why are we paying money?

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

If you took a quick look at the Gay Pattaya section, you'd see that I asked the same question late last year and @floridarob was kind enough to reply. See 
I used the shop's services and found them to be good. The clothese were ready the next day. I have marked the location of Nok Laundry on my map of Pattaya Boyztown/Pattayaland https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2023/12/14/map-of-pattayaland-area-december-2023/

Understand.  I was commenting on Macaroni’s excellent photos and narrative. And the fact that his experience in many ways to my visit.

A few trips ago made almost the same pilgrimage to the Santa Cruz church on a late Sunday morning. Only difference in our route was walking over the bridge. While coming off on other side we found a very competitive game of volleyball being played beneath the bridge superstructure. We marveled at how these young men could get their bodies nearly horizontal to return the ball. Turned out to be one of the unexpected pleasures of the visit.
Like you we also found the church locked when we arrived. 
Thanks for great photos and history.
 

+1, in some bars add the show to list of goodies provided, in some even with glimpse of cock or even chance to get grasp of one for a tip  during big cock parade.  
great sightseeing report in your blog about Santa Cruz neigbourhood in Bangkok
Santa Cruz church and Kudeejeen – ShamelessMack2 (travel.blog)

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

"When we almost got arrested for being gay in Delhi" -- an alarming headline from one of Nomadic Boys' articles. Fortunately it explains that it was just a shakedown to get a bribe and anyway the law has changed since the incident in 2016.
India is one of those places I have to go to for work and hardly ever get to see more of. I keep telling myself I should do a vacation there one day but have yet to get around to it. My sense is that the scene is not publicly accessible, you need to know someone to take you in. My brief glances at the apps however suggest that they are very active, but 2 hurdles: Outside of business and elite circles, English is much lass spoken than we might otherwise assume. I also believe the guys on the apps would have difficulties hosting you since most Indians live with their families.
A couple of years ago, I made a side trip from Mumbai (where I was on business) to Kerala for a long weekend (not quite a vacation by my standards). Freed from the constraints of scheduling, I could wander around in a more relaxed way and noticed that here and there people were cruising. Mostly, I remained no more than a distant observer, though on two occasions I became prey. One was at a ferry terminal where a guy spotted me looking at a bunch of very good looking young men monkeying around. This guy figured out my interest and started to make a move on me. Unfortunately, it was a very public place (a busy ferry landing) and he didn't seem anywhere near my type, so it went no further. Another cruising incident (I think the very same afternoon or the next day) was at a temple! Once again, not truly my type, and I was too far from my hotel to even consider taking him back with me.
I also had two massages while in the beach towns of Kerala. I had nothing but massage in mind, but as is my usual practice, I looked only for massage places where the service-provider was male. These were quite common. On both occasions, the masseur progressed to handjobs but remained fully clothed. The first time, I didn't want to go too far to tug away his clothing, not being familiar with the rules of the game, so to speak. The second time I tugged. But he resisted, so that was that.
In short, nothing like Thailand. I think India must be seen as one of those countries (like most countries in the world) where sexual interest cannot be a major reason for going otherwise you'll be disappointed. If it happens, it's a bonus.

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

IMHO not at all, but the only choice we have is either to enter+pay or not step foot in a bar at all.
However, to be fair, 500 is not the price of the beer. It is a combo price for the following:
1. The beer.
2. The waiter's effort bringing it to you and watching you like a hawk for the rest of the evening in case you leave without settling the tab ("check bin").
3. The gogo boys' pittance of a salary for being there on stage.
4. The extra allowances paid to those boys who participate in shows.
5. Your share of rent and utilities.
6. Your share of the brown envelope money that even permits the bar to operate the way it does.
7. Costs of other staff such as the DJ who does not know what tolerable volume level means.
8. Management profit.
All the above add up to 250 baht, which would be more or less what the girl gogo bars charge.  It is 500 baht because each customer who steps into a boy bar has to pay the share of the missing customer who, having seen the fast declining quality of the boys and their undress (less undressed than before), the boring shows, and the escalating prices, have since stopped to the bars or much less frequently than before. If not for paying the share of the missing customer, there won't be enough revenue to keep the bars going.
Enjoy 😛