GPs who ask for (Financial) Help

[Canadianbtmguy]

This has come up a few times over the years but this is the first time that I am likely to help one.

I wrote about this guy about a week ago. I met him at 117, he had come for the weekend with his friend from a small city in Sao Paolo state, about 5 hours from Sao Paolo. I visited him there and had a great time. His friend there convinced him of all the money they could make in Europe, and so (probably using the money I gave him plus more, because that alone would not be enough) bought a ticket to Europe. It seems to have been a bust (besides the language barrier, Rome and Paris may not have been the best choices).

He wants to go home and asked me for help. I said i could look into using miles to get him home (if he just wanted money, a useless offer); I told him it would be an ugly flight with 2 stops about 10 hours each, not leaving until wednesday, he said no problem. I ask him if he had a place to stay, he sent his location (he's at Orly airport) and says he's grateful enough that I'm getting his flight, no need to pay for a hotel, there are a lot of police there and it is safe. Basically I'm trying to separate the actually desperate from the greedy. And he's passing everything that I throw at him. Any other strategies?

A question of not so general application is that he could more than make up the coat to me (25k miles + $100) by buying something in Paris (an over-the-counter medication) that I want that is much cheaper there. (about $100 there versus several times that here and I would like about 5-10 of it). If I send him cash by Western Union or whatever, he could be tempted to spend it (the cash price of a flight is about $500 so as long as I was content with 2 or 3 it would be foolish for him to not buy it and then lose my flight. I thought of some kind of like reloadable credit card (like every time he buys one he takes a picture of it with the receipt and I reload another $100).  Any ideas on how to accomplish this effectively? I will be in brazil from Jan 2 so getting what he buys is not a problem.

But again the second question is subsidiary to the first; anything else I should be doing/asking to be sure that he really is in a desperate situation and not just wanting a gratuitous um...gratuity...

 

[scott456]

You can fly to Paris and buy the medication yourself.  Is Brazil your only travel destination, you don't travel to Europe?

If you want to give him a mileage ticket, consider it a charitable donation with no string attached.  But you sound like you want to attach something to whatever between you and this GP. 

[floridarob]

8 hours ago, Canadianbtmguy said:

(an over-the-counter medication) that I want that is much cheaper there. (about $100 there versus several times that here and I would like about 5-10 of it)

Living in Mexico, there are always people looking for someone to "mule" medications down. Both OTC and prescription in quantities, if inspected can cause problems. 

If it was 1 or 2 , you could explain it as personal use, but more than that I think is asking a lot of someone, mileage/revenue ticket or not.

 

[bcdaron]

I know generally speaking that when I visit a country I have to show proof of a return ticket. It may be different there but I would check the immigration requirements for said GP and see if that is also a requirement to enter Europe from Brazil. If that is the case, I would be very leery of entrusting him with any cash. 

[Canadianbtmguy]

I figured out on certain credit cards you can put a monthly limit. I gave him the card number and he put it on his phone. I did it with chase, I put it at $120 and I can raise it after he gets the first one, (and cancel the card when he is done.) I decided to try to have him get 3. We'll see how it goes

To answer a couple of questions I do go to Europe often, but typically not until spring. And I think all non-immigrants are supposed to have a return ticket, but I recall only one instance of even being asked, and it certainly wasn't in Rome, where he entered

[floridarob]

4 hours ago, bcdaron said:

I know generally speaking that when I visit a country I have to show proof of a return ticket. It may be different there but I would check the immigration requirements for said GP and see if that is also a requirement to enter Europe from Brazil. If that is the case, I would be very leery of entrusting him with any cash. 

He's in Europe going back to Brasil, is my understanding 🤔

[Mavica]

I would not ask someone to mule medication for me, not at the quantity suggested in the OP.  Doing so places the young man at risk.  If I'd been with the person, enjoyed the time and he was returning gain to where I spent time with him I might be inclined to send the ticket / money.  Maybe there's the possibility of another hook-up, out of gratitude. If I were taken advantage of by being kind, so be it.  I've been burned giving money to escorts in the USA in response to appeals for help, but never the multiple times I did so when I lived in Mexico.  It's a gut feeling type of decision.

[numazu]

Intriguing predicament @Canadianbtmguy.  Did you end up helping the guy? I’ve been asked to help with airfare throughout the years by GPs and never really did help anyone if I wasn’t in the same trip.  Seems like he is desperate.

And is he staying in an airport while he waits for help? Winter in Europe can’t be a comfortable climate for a Brasileiro.

[scott456]

Winter in Europe is bitterly cold OUTDOOR.  But most indoor space is very nice and warm, better than Sao Paulo indoor in June through August when none of the bars, clubs, saunas or airports have heating.

[scott456]

8 hours ago, floridarob said:

He's in Europe going back to Brasil, is my understanding 🤔

The said GP might have a rountrip ticket when he entered EU, but ditched the return ticket and overstayed.  That's how these type of people do it.

[Canadianbtmguy]

So, a bit of an update. He told me he was taking the tram from Orly into the city, as it creeps through gritty southern suburbs of Paris and oversaw someone reading Portugese on their phone and he forced himself to start a conversation with him (for a tall and handsome guy he's kind of quiet; and I've heard before that Brazilians who encounter other Brazilians don't tend to be overly friendly to each other...) But I guess the guy kind of got him a gig* in the restaurant he works washing dishes or whatever until new years and is staying in a hostel (yeah I guess he slept in orly airport 2 or 3 nights); as he says, it is not exactly his dream but neither was it his dream to return home after 2 weeks in utter defeat. So he asked me to "postpone" (please don't cancel) the ticket until after new years. Sounds reasonable, who knows if it's true... The point of general application, though, is that I think I want to believe him, as I want to believe people generally (and concededly, cute charming guys, especially) How does/should one fight this impetus? And should one try to dull it generally in oneself or trust oneself to engage in a case-by-case examination?

For factual clarification, he went there with a somewhat older, somewhat more savvy (not nearly as handsome) GP friend of his who maybe knew that you could book a return flight in case asked and then cancel within 24 hours. Just a guess. He himself doesn't have a credit card so not sure. The medication is over the counter in all 3 relevant countries, (just far cheaper in France) so I don't know if the mule analogies are quite right.

Anyway, I will update more as it arises

*writing "gig" in another sense of the word than Rio-lovers are accustomed made me remember a few months ago, I was flying ITA to Rio and one middle-aged, overly makeup-ed checkin agent was asking her similar colleague to print my boarding pass(or something) and the second asked the first what was the destination, and she said "GIG....come[as in]....gig-olo" as they cackled at their inside joke that was, in fact, neither😆

[floridarob]

8 hours ago, Canadianbtmguy said:

The medication is over the counter in all 3 relevant countries, (just far cheaper in France) so I don't know if the mule analogies are quite right.

Put the shoe of the other foot, how many times have you been questioned by customs officials in other countries? Would you take 10 OTC things for someone?

I brought Inca Cola from Peru back to Mexico....they sent a bottle to the lab to be tested, while I was detained. I've had pills, from my pill a day dispenser confiscated (blood pressure pills) because they were unidentifiable......,and more.

I don't mule anything for anyone, no matter how "legal" they think/claim it to be. Nor do I ask anyone to mule anything...the potential problems even if nothing comes of it in the end aren't worth it.

[Canadianbtmguy]

I realized I never gave the ending of this story. It actually hasn’t ended, but at least I can give an update. So it worked out fine with him buying the rx’s (a few glitches with bank that took a lot of time.) maybe a day before he was due to fly from Paris to São Paulo he announced he had just landed in Martinique, that he had taken the offer of a friend to work at a friend’s restaurant there in exchange for room and board, mostly because he wasn’t ready to return to his small town after such a short time (with his tail between his legs, no less). Kind of made sense. After about a month, he wanted to come back to Brazil, I got his ticket and he came back, with the rx so it basically worked out. This all happened months ago. 

 

Since I’m on a long flight back home (not from Brasil…) I’ll continue on.  So, once back in São Paulo you can either fly or take a 6 hour bus ride to a small city, from which he lives an hour away. He asked me about buying him a flight, and it was only 150 reais, 3 days away. I thought he would be eager to get home to his mother, who he is very close to, but he was fine with it. So, I find him physically stunning, among the very best I have met there, but I don’t super enjoy spending time with him, maybe not even 3 days if it was free, and certainly not if I had to pay. The fact that I speak portugese-sprinkled Spanish actually ends up inhibiting any real communication (I haven’t yet learned how to do the “maxi” conversational translator) and so rather lazily, I suppose, I blather on in what can’t even really be called portuñol, and him in not even slowed down or spanicized portugese (as some Brazilians will do for me); as such, understanding probably about 20% of each other, whereas if it were probably some other more distant language pair we’d be forced to translate. He’s not super high energy and that’s true in sex too. He totally kisses, and cuddles all night and he’ll do some sex, it’s hard to put my finger on why, but it’s just boring. He’s naturally hairy and he shaves his body which comes off as sort of a metaphor, he’s so handsome, just not fuckin sexy, if you know what I mean…

So anyway, I said we would have the 3 days til the flight with the middle one like an “Independence Day”, that I would get him his own room for the middle night (I phrased it as he would be so sick of me after 3 days…) and we could each do our own thing that day. For me, I was kind of leery of accumulating 3 days at an unspoken rate and then negotiating at the end (some people would be totally fine with that, for me it’s like a nightmare scenario 🙀) So I think maybe I gave him 500 for the first day, which he seemed fine with. I forget if it was then, or on the last day, I gave him some of my PrEP and some info on PrEP on demand/2-1-1 and told him it was totally his decision but I would love to feel him without the condom (which he had fumbled with) (much discussed in this threadhttps://www.gayguides.com/forums/topic/50970-condomless-with-gps-in-brazil/  so please not here). We kinda kept in touch that day, he came over for a little nap and a snack of these cookies I had that he likes, he said he went to a fun fair with some friends he has in SP, and I went to Lagoa. I was glad to see him the next morning when he moved back in, we went to that district downtown where they sell those counterfeit name brand clothes (he bought a few things for himself as well as a Chinese street lunch and I bought him nothing more than an ice cream) it was pretty boring. Later we went home for some lesbian bed death cuddling (I really shouldn’t be so critical…it’s just so vexing, and I mean he can get a hardon at the drop of a hat…One time he’s taking a shower while I was in the bathroom brushing my teeth and it’s not he’s even touching himself and he’s totally hard.) next morning he had to leave kind of early for his flight, I didn’t give him any money at all, he warmly said goodbye, thanked me again for the tickets (I guess it’s true that the Paris-Sao Paulo ticket had great value to him, although he largely offset it for me with the rx)

He’s kind of an enigma. But I mean I guess he was once married to a woman and that didn’t work out (I couldn’t really understand what he said about why😂). He’s kind of a simple country boy I guess, he said people say he’s as smart as a burro (although when I went to visit him in his city there was a situation with one of his friends that I thought very deftly handled). I asked him once like what did he want in life, love with a man, love with a woman, and I think (to the extent he understood my question and I understood his response…) he said he just wanted some excitement in his life. 

Sexually, (again I would probably know more if we actually understood each others conversations…) I really don’t know where he is. One thing that can hardly be missed is his close relationship with his mother, who I guess raised him alone after his father took off when she became pregnant. He’s 29 and she really looks no older than 45 (which I guess is possible) and very fit. I have seen videos of them dancing, which by uptight North American standards are shhhhhockingly oedipal (dirty dancing with your mother and bending her over while making pumping motions while slapping her ass is, um, something I’ve never done with my mother, but maybe we are the ones who are frigid and boring). 

Finishing up, I actually wrote about him on a different thread when I saw him for a day during my April trip.https://www.gayguides.com/forums/topic/47718-s%C3%A3o-paulo-sophomore-and-freshman-for-rio/?do=findComment&comment=387954 I bought him a 7500 mile AA award, (much offset by his paying my SmartFit arrears with his pix) to go from his town a day in São Paulo to see me and then to Belem, from which he had a way to get back to Martinique. I guess as unappealing as his situation was there, it beats sitting around his mothers house an hour away from an airport which has 3 flights a day to SP and a single “long haul” to Rio (of course he may be exaggerating or even lying about the undesirability of his situation in Martinique.) And sadly, he may be heading for an end there,as a few days ago he wrote me (it doesn’t translate well) that he was in some sort of fight, surprising because I have never seen him anything but calm

 

Tapa no rosto não aceito, poderia ter me ofendido mais n me tocado, n fiz nada pq infelizmente estou no msm teto e ele poderia me mata dormindo ou chamado a polícia e tbm minha passagem de volta esta com ele

 

Well, let’s hope for the best. Coincidentally, moving to the present, during the flight (AF has free access to WhatsApp) he wrote asking if he could have another of those domestic awards (what, does he think they grow on trees?) from Belem, I guess he is coming home from Martinique. 

 

So with an hour left in flight, I’ll also give an update on a guy who I also mentioned in my April trip report. He just turned 40, still has washboard abs and super sexy though nowhere near the striking physical specimen I describe above. (At least 6 months ago after I hired him a couple times at Lagoa he invited me to the movies, and then he kinda got a crush on me—I guess—and followed me to Europe at great expense of his own.) He has dreamed of America, he has a US flag tattooed on his bicep. He was able to get a US visa (he has about 120k reais in the bank) and his father owns a 6 story apartment building, so he is in a much different financial position than the other guy, whose mother is a domestica. He has this really appealing sweet caring side (I tend to be kind of lax about tying my shoe and I can’t even say how many times, some without me even knowing, he bends down to tie my shoes for example) Sometime I guess I had joked that in Brazil he has to fuck old men, whereas in the US he could just change their diaper. It so happens that my best friend’s 88 year old father is in that situation, and, well, long story short, he was on the plane to Orlando last Wednesday. He kind of flubbed it at the border and they only gave him 30 days, but it is working out—at least as of now—amazingly. My best friend says he’s the hooker with the heart of gold. His father has regressed to a point where he speaks the language of his childhood, which his nurses don’t understand anyway, so it actually doesn’t matter that the Brazilian guy doesn’t speak English. It seems he is really doing an amazing job (so far) far superior to the existing caregivers(although I’ve warned him they are bound to turn against him for making them look lazy) I really don’t know how it’s an improvement over his life in São Paulo (granted I don’t think he envisions it as a lifelong career, but maybe a year while he learns English). I had warned him that there were people competing at the low end of the wage scale who are escaping violence and deep poverty, so, for them, even a crappy life in the US beats what they leave behind, and his paulista life was nothing like that, but at least as of day 5, my friend is planning to pay to request to extend the Brazilians stay, so we may get a nice story out of this. Maybe I should start a charity to “retool” aging (or reluctant) GPs kkkk

 

 

Thank you!

[Docbr01]

Thx for the update in both stories. I really like to know how others deals with some “long” term relations with the gp… While I find easy to connect and make friendship with the guys, most of the times it end up with them asking for more and more “free” money, that’s make me feel bad to deny or even to comply , because I feel explored. 

But loved the charity idea …  I guess there is even commercial potencial for a care home for older gay guys where all the caregivers are tall, strong muscular ex (?) GP Brazilians … I’m sure I would love to spend my last days in one of those. 

[12is12]

If they really r the "last" days, I'd b VERY frustrated at not being able to do anything with all thise muscles around me )-:

[hornyfrog]

On 5/20/2024 at 5:16 PM, Docbr01 said:

Thx for the update in both stories. I really like to know how others deals with some “long” term relations with the gp… While I find easy to connect and make friendship with the guys, most of the times it end up with them asking for more and more “free” money, that’s make me feel bad to deny or even to comply , because I feel explored. 

I think you meant to type you feel “exploited”? Because that makes more sense.

I’ve been living here in Brazil full-time for several years now, and I can tell you that the asking from the boys / garotos is never-ending. The reasons for needing the dinheiro or the presente can run from the very very stereotypical (“sick grandmother”) to the very practical (“need a new iPhone to replace my broken phone”) to the very creative (“want to buy an açaí cart to become a beach vendor”) to the brutally honest (“I need a new watch to look good for the ladies at the discoteca on Saturday night”). No matter the reason, it’s best just to say no, politely and firmly. The first reason is because once you say yes, the asks never end and usually they increase in value and complexity. Also, it’s a numbers game with these boys. They all have a list of Cliente contacts to make asks for dinheiro and presented. If out of 100 who they can ask, just 1 or 2 respond favorably, that’s a win for them. Now, imagine if 4 respond favorably. In spite what they say, you’re almost never their only option for help. More importantly, all that giving doesn’t make the boys like you or love you any more than the clients who don’t. Remember, in spite of the sweet talk, or the talk about how rough their lives are in Brazil, that this is their job, and receiving dinheiro and presentes from clientes outside of sex work, to them, is just another form of payment for their job.

Yes, be nice and kind, but nicely, kindly, and firmly tell them no. 

[12is12]

I like the 4 reason quotes (-:

[hornyfrog]

1 hour ago, 12is12 said:

I like the 4 reason quotes (-:

Thanks. I used real life examples. 🙂

[floridarob]

5 hours ago, hornyfrog said:

all that giving doesn’t make the boys like you or love you any more than the clients who don’t.

Agree 100%. Is why when people overpay, especially by a lot, throws the $$ dynamic out of whack...kind of like Uber dynamic pricing.  We've been saying this on these boards for 20+ years...... Locals have always looked at foreigners poorly because of this, raising the expectations of the guys....then we have the clients that tell the guys, "you know you're worth more, this would cost xx dollars in NY, LAX, SFO, etc.... 

Paying more isn't going to buy more love, paying more might make you a preferred client, but sex is sex to most of these guys..... tell me when you were young, how attractive did you find a 60 or 70 yr old guy 😆..... we've all sat in the sauna watching these guys, that we've been with , making out with some other client wondering, how the fuck is he with THAT GUY, so gross, lol

[hornyfrog]

1 hour ago, floridarob said:

Agree 100%. Is why when people overpay, especially by a lot, throws the $$ dynamic out of whack...kind of like Uber dynamic pricing.  We've been saying this on these boards for 20+ years...... Locals have always looked at foreigners poorly because of this, raising the expectations of the guys....then we have the clients that tell the guys, "you know you're worth more, this would cost xx dollars in NY, LAX, SFO, etc.... 

Paying more isn't going to buy more love, paying more might make you a preferred client, but sex is sex to most of these guys..... tell me when you were young, how attractive did you find a 60 or 70 yr old guy 😆..... we've all sat in the sauna watching these guys, that we've been with , making out with some other client wondering, how the fuck is he with THAT GUY, so gross, lol

I said before, I think I posted at the other similar board, that in reality, in all my years of being in this sauna scene, there have been only a few charmed-life clients that the guys really, really are into and want to have sexy time with. Like I can count them on one hand and still have some fingers on that hand left. The rest, the overwhelming majority, to some varying degrees, are walking, traveling wallets and Papas Noel (Santa Clauses). I understand it’s good for the ego to feed into the fantasy and delusion of it all that these beautiful young studs like us for us, and many of them are very good at playing as if they do (those are the best at their jobs). But falling for the “hooker with a heart of gold” story or getting a savior complex over these working guys down here is falling into the most common trap.

One of my best friends here in Brazil is an older, retired garoto de programa. He keeps it real with me about these guys whenever I am on that proverbial ledge, and reminds me that their job is to get the dinheiro and presentes from the clients, and as friendly as everything seems, that’s always going to be the nature of the relationship. Give and take — you give, they take.

You can be a kind client without being a fool with your money or your heart. And if you still decide to be “generous” and give into their asks, then Dear God, give with absolutely no expectation at all and don’t give anything close to what you can afford to lose. 

 

[12is12]

In total agreement, except:

"You give they take" - that's only the money.

They give good sex, and when we're fortunate - also a nice time.

[hornyfrog]

1 hour ago, 12is12 said:

In total agreement, except:

"You give they take" - that's only the money.

They give good sex, and when we're fortunate - also a nice time.

Fair enough. That’s actually the best we all can hope for — an even, fair exchange. 

[johnnyboi23]

The sad part is that the bad GP's who try to upcharge and shorten sessions are the most easily found.

[SolaceSoul]

13 hours ago, hornyfrog said:

I think you meant to type you feel “exploited”? Because that makes more sense.

I’ve been living here in Brazil full-time for several years now, and I can tell you that the asking from the boys / garotos is never-ending. The reasons for needing the dinheiro or the presente can run from the very very stereotypical (“sick grandmother”) to the very practical (“need a new iPhone to replace my broken phone”) to the very creative (“want to buy an açaí cart to become a beach vendor”) to the brutally honest (“I need a new watch to look good for the ladies at the discoteca on Saturday night”). No matter the reason, it’s best just to say no, politely and firmly. The first reason is because once you say yes, the asks never end and usually they increase in value and complexity. Also, it’s a numbers game with these boys. They all have a list of Cliente contacts to make asks for dinheiro and presented. If out of 100 who they can ask, just 1 or 2 respond favorably, that’s a win for them. Now, imagine if 4 respond favorably. In spite what they say, you’re almost never their only option for help. More importantly, all that giving doesn’t make the boys like you or love you any more than the clients who don’t. Remember, in spite of the sweet talk, or the talk about how rough their lives are in Brazil, that this is their job, and receiving dinheiro and presentes from clientes outside of sex work, to them, is just another form of payment for their job.

Yes, be nice and kind, but nicely, kindly, and firmly tell them no. 

Well said!

I’ve been saying something similar for years (and gafe gotten lots of pushback for saying it).  

[Keithambrose]

15 hours ago, 12is12 said:

I like the 4 reason quotes (-:

What about the death of the family buffalo?