splinter1949

It baffles the imagination yet another successful shopping mall has opened in a new high rise diagonally opposite the Samyan MRT station.
Samyan Mirtown Features a hotel, condos and offices with a five-level mall on the lowest floors. It’s connected to the MRT station via a circular tunnel that has become a very popular location with photographers. 
The ground floor of the mall is open 24/7 with a food court. If you arrive in the Silom area and it’s too early to check into your hotel, or you need to kill some time before a late night departure, this may be an attractive option. It’s one stop beyond Silom on the MRT. 
On the fifth level there’s a large, two-sided outdoor observation deck (photo below). 
https://www.samyan-mitrtown.com/

Absolutely they change, though I was in Screwboys last Monday night, the 11th, and many nights in the month before that so am up to date for the moment. 

I only spent 2 nights in Bangkok this time round (first night and last night), as my main focus was the Yee Peng Lantern Festival in Chiang Mai (highly recommended!)
As mentioned in the Moonlight thread, my first night was spent at Moonlight, followed by off-ing a Vietnamese hunk from Lucky Boys.
So, on the last night, I decided to start bar-hopping earlier at 9pm.
First stop was the “seedy trio bars” (Golden Cock, New Nature Boy, Super A) near Tawan.
That alley was REALLY quiet, but Golden Cock was the easiest to locate (if you walk past Tawan and turn right).
There were 2 boys sitting outside Golden Cock having their dinner, and they seemed surprised when I asked to enter. Drink was only 150B (as there were no shows).
As expected, I was the only customer, and all eyes were on me. All 8 boys were trying to attract my attention on stage, winking and flexing (including the mamasan who was rather young and cute too). Felt kinda flattered yet intimidated.
Only one boy caught my eye, and I’m glad he was eagerly appealing himself too. He had the body of a twink, yet face of a man (kinda rugged look with a cute moustache).
Although my hotel was nearby, I decided to pay 600B for the room upstairs. Walking up the dark stairway, and laying on the mattress on the floor of that dilapidated room, the shadiness of it all actually gave me a rush of adrenalin.
After showering with the 27yo boy from Issan, he suggested giving me a massage first. DAMN the massage quality was WAYYYY beyond my expectations. it was then he revealed that he used to work at a massage salon. NO WONDER.
he also jokingly said that he wanna work at Moonlight & Jupiter, but he has no 6-pack. I consoled him that his looks was as handsome as the Moonlight & Jupiter boys (I really meant it).
After the massage came the teasing, and boy was he good with his tongue! I sucked him while he was standing up, and ran my hands all over his smooth twinkish body (although I’m usually into muscular hunks).
It was cute how sensitive his body was, and he eventually came a huge load on my chest (he wanted to come in my mouth but I declined).
Then I also came while we deep-kissed and fondled each other.
After tipping him and taking a selfie, we parted with a tight hug and one last kiss.
It was 10:30pm when I left Golden Cock, just in time for the show at Jupiter... (to be continued)

now I know where to start next trip

saw this too, the ever resourceful reader of course beat me to it to post it here  
Will certainly check out the museum in due course

I wonder how successful are they being incognito in a bar full of asian lol

Poseidon has an excellent reputation for its elaborate monthly dinners and the quality of its food - at the hotel/restaurant it's mainly western farang food.
 

answer is : YES

Most guys are desirous of making more money. I do not see this forum as a means for them to accomplish that. For them to read all these longs postings in a language other than their native tongue would take some skills. Perhaps reading a good book would be a better use of their time. There are some posters who share information about boys to others and that gets them business. This is a good thing IMHO.  I also see the Moonlight thread (among others) as a way to really promote that bar but not really all the boys. I think (and I may be wrong) but the forum does a good job at helping people find places and not specific people.

I'll post it here rather than post it privately.
In Sao Paulo, I visited Lagoa Sao Paulo.  I was not ready for this place.  It was crowded with hot guys all over the place.  When I say hot guys, I mean HOT guys!  Relaxed nudity by many of the guys advertising their body.  most of the showers were out in the open and it seemed as if the guys needed little excuse to shower out in the open.  I don't like it when there is so much choice because its impossible for me to make a choice.  I was rescued by a tall, dark guy offering to show me around.  The place was bigger then I expected and my new guide led me around the place.  As we made our way around some guys would say something but I didn't know if they were talking to me or my guide.  
When my guide showed me the 2nd floor, he dropped his towel, backed me into a corner and frenched kissed me.  I'm shy so I pushed him away halfheartedly and he grabbed my wrists, placed them over my head before directing my hands to his erection.  I should say his big erection.  There was nothing I could do with his big, thick uncut dick.  And as far as screwing me, I have to think about the next guy and his cock was too big.  I also am not a fan of facial hair and he had too much of it.  Too much facial hair and too much cock.  He wanted me to get a suite with promises of fucing me in every position.  I just giggled and told him I was just looking around.  He snatched off my towel, spun me around and he was frenching my ass.  I broke our contact and told him I can't.  He grabbed my hand and put it on his cock and asked if he could just put the head in.  Keep in mind his english is not that good and I was about to pull turn on my phone translator till his finger entered me and he said the crown or tip or something when I finally understood.  I told him I can't and that I didn't bring enough money.  He suggested I pay him whatever I wanted after the sex.    I told him to follow me to my locker.  He followed me but would not enter the locker area.  I fished out a 50 real note to give to him.  He ignored the money and went back to seduction mode but I was able to slip away.  Everytime a guy would talk to me, he would seem to be watching or just looking.  
Later in the night, I was wondering around and my guide friend stopped me and asked for 50 reals for us to have fun together.  I declined with a smile and we moved away from each other.  I met another guy that dreams are made of.  He was the guy my mind imagines when I jerk off and I have to imagine a guy...  This would be the guy but there were so many guys of my dreams there that I didn't want to commit to him.  We found a corner and were french kissing.  I am not a fan of kissing but I went with the flow.  our towels are on the floor and once again my ass is getting french kissed.  My guide friend found us...  I had the 2nd guy follow me to my locker area and fished out 50 reals for him.  We went to the bar and shared a drink. My guide friend was now dressed and came over to say goodbye but offered to stay if I wanted him to.  
Guy #2 went to get dressed and he was even hotter in clothes then he was in a towel.  
I went to walk around some more and was pulled into a side room.  I think it was a bathroom.  The guy that pulled me into the room was a guy that had to be a body builder.  He was in speedos and pulled out his big cock and layed it in my hand as it quickly grew hard and thick and asked me if I liked it.  I did but it was getting late and I decided to head back to my hotel.
When I got back to the hotel, I invited a college guy I was talking to on Grindr.  He came over and we had what I would call rough sex.  With these guys hung so large I need to lean how to say "Wait, Hold on, Stop a minute and take it out" in Portuguese.  Otherwise it will just be rough sex with them forcing it in.  I went to bed a little sore and 150 reals poorer.
The next night at Lagoa I saw my guide friend again and he made his offer of doing everything to me.  I came back with what I thought was my best way to say no without saying no.  I told him I was a cheap-skate as I smiled and walked away.  bumped into the #2 guy from yesterday and we went to the got a drink and talked a little.  He was so hot in his towel but other hot guys were sitting around in towels.  One guy was sitting across from me.  His legs were open in my direction and his towel parted just enough.  His cock hung down between his legs resting on the seat with the head almost draped over the edge.  It would have been a perfect porn magazine shot.  I wondered just how big it got.  There was too much action and eye candy for me to focus on guy #2 so I got up and walked around.
I flirted with a few guys and when my guide friend stopped me and told me we could have sex and I would not need to pay him anything.  How do you say no to that without hurting his feelings?  The best I could do was tell him I just came there to flirt and relax, no sex.  He took that answer and we parted.  
I took a seat in the back section, past the lockers for the guys and near the TV.  when HE showed up.  I was kinda looking at the TV while looking at the guys walking by when one guy with a very tight body stopped as if he was interested in the TV screen.  He opened his towel to re-adjust it but all I saw was his long dick.  He just stood there giving me time to take in his body.  His body reminded me of a Lion or Panther in his prime, lean, tight, built for endurance...  I thought I was checking him out but he was hunting me.  He turned and walked over to me and asked if he could sit with me and made himself comfortable.
His english was not so good, I pulled out my phone to translate for us but he wanted to do it in english.  Later he told me he wants to go to Thailand, I didn't ask why.  As we talked we slowly moved closer.  As we talked more in english and using my phone,  he slid closer and pulled my leg over his leg and began to massage my thigh.  While his hands massaged my my leg, his dick grew hard was tapping at my theigh.  before long my skin was painted with pre-cum and he apologized but I didn't care. 
We then used the translation app to talk about sex, that went to what was the wildest sex we ever had and that went to what was the kinkiest sex we ever had and then we talked about what we would like to do to each other.  Next thing I know we are entering a suite and we didn't finish there.  We decided to take the fun back to my room and as we were leaving we passed my guide friend.
When we got back to my hotel we did everything I ever wanted to try in sex and he was eager to please.  Too eager and too ready to use that big dick of his.  After about the 3rd orgasm I was ready for him to leave.  I had to pack and be at the airport in the morning and my rear was tired and needed a rest.  He was not done, it's about 4am and he is in the nude performing a fighting type dance.  Then he wants to teach me some dance moves and that turns to touching and him trying to push me on the bed.  When I would not get into position he decides head would good enough for im giving head but my mind was telling me this was going to take forever.  His cock was too big, my jaw hurt, my butt hurt, I was sleepy, Everytime he starts to get dressed something happens and we are having sex again.  After a while I stopped trying and just relaxed hoping he would loose interest in an unresponsive mouth.  No such luck. The choking, gagging, slobbering and whimpering seemed to turn him to the point of him rising up on his toes for another orgasm.  I was getting turned on again but I couldn't take anymore.  I gave him 150 Reals plus a $5 US note.  We exchanged numbers on whatsapp and kissed goodbye.  Once he left I jerked off remembering our sex and went to sleep.

Day 1 - The Departure and Arrival
As i said in previous post, ill be arriving at night. my flight is at 19.35pm and arriving 20:50pm, so i left office early today to go back home to pack and ready to go to the airport. After all packing was done, I went down the stairs to catch my grab and unfortunately missed one step toward the end of and tripped. Sprained both my ankles due to the fall, took a bit of time to recover from the pain and force my way to the front door and wait for my grab. Though im in pain, I can still walk, albeit slowly, so i count my blessing and just move at my own pace. 
When i arrived at the airport, went through immigration and found out my flight got delayed 1 hour plus so, i went to the cafe, bought a drink and asked if they can spare some ice so i can used them to make a makeshit icepack using tissues. it helps a lot in reducing the swelling and pain. Due to the delay, i only managed to arrived in dmk at 10:20pm instead. I usually wait until tomorrow to go and get a sim card in silom which is usually cheaper, but due to my recent injury, i settled with tourist simcard for 299 baht at the airport. took the taxi from dmk, asked the driver to avoid expressway and arrived at Raya a bit after 11pm.
Checked in went smoothly and after cleaned up a bit, i went out to check out the scene, walking slowly with slightly improve ankle. It is still too early for screwboys late night show at 1.30am so i went to hotmale instead. Not many customer on thursday night, maybe me and few other at the back, who soon left. i asked if there is a show, mamasan said later at midnight. so i stay for a while looking at the boy on offers. not a bad selection but one in particular had very defined muscle, among the 3 guys who wore black underwear, and from time to time dancing near the pole so i guess its the famous coyote dancer of hotmale. IIRC, he is #3. The night is still young, so after waiting a while for a show that will not happen, since im the only customer around, i decided to go to screwboy instead. 
What a change of scene. Screwboys is doing great, with plenty of customer but still have seats for me near the entrance facing the stage. Better selection of boys here than hotmale, though no one can beat #3 hotmale coyote dancer in terms of body. One particular guy caught my eyes from the stage. As u can guess, he is no twink. Great body, not muscular but natural fit, with a bit tummy of manliness. His face looks a bit like jericho rosales, actor from philippines. I took too long to decide and one customer who already have one boy with him called him for a drink and he spent quite a time with the customer during the show. There is also another guy that i like, but also similar case, taken by a customer who sits to the left of the stage, the place where more than kissing can happen. 
Anyway, the guy soon left with the customer, so my eye went back the the first guy, who was still sitting with customer on the table next to me. Not long after, the customer left and he went back to the stage. This time i didnt delay and immediately called him down, drink ordererdand the usual conversation ensued. Off fee paid, long time agreed and we both went to Raya. As always, i asked if he want anything to eat, he bought some street food along the way and off we go for room inspection. He was a great company, cant recall his number but if i have to guess it was #33, from myanmar. Very passionate, gave me great massages, and my feet feels a bit better the day after probably due to his massage too. We ate breakfast together in Raya and i sent him off. My first up to you when asked about how much is the tip for LT, so i pay the regular rate. I am off to a good start despite the tiny mishap in the beginning of the trip. 
 

Fire up google maps when you arrive and you can easily see which is faster.    BTS/MRT/ARL is usually a bit more than an hour.  Taxi no traffic is about 35 minutes.  Even with traffic usually taxi is faster and easier.  

that's very good idea as walk is short with Magic Touch massage on the way if one takes soi Wat Hualampong route, the shortest way from there

Agreed; there are not many of us to go round nowadays. That generation- often closeted gays whose formative years were spent in a  society where gay sex was illegal and who found freedom in Thailand- have mostly passed on. I'd be surprised if the the Asian customers of today have taken their places in the LTR market..
Look around; if you see falang/Thai couples together in restaurants ,staying at hotels together, shopping and so on, the falang will likely be in his 70s and the Thai in his 30s or thereabouts. Partnerships, as it happens, like mine. 

Last night, November 10, 2019,  Panorama held a grand opening.  Food was provided by Poseidon restaurant in Jomtien Complex.
The food was delicious and a farang chef was in attendance.  It felt like the peak of high season as every table was full with a large
crowd of farangs and Asians..  It was a smashing success!  Live music and singing for hours.  

Again, this is only what I found as useful for me.
 
DivineMadman’s motto: “Don't over-think; Be open; Be kind. Have fun.”
Preparations before you go:
Hygene yourself as before a romantic date.
Place all valuables in safe.
Have small bills for tips and charges (from 20 to 1000), and know what the rates are.
At the bar:
“Confidently walk into the bar, and have no fear. People go to these bars to off lads, so do not be shy. Never look like a newbie. If asked by staff how many times you’ve been to Thailand, your answer should be ”five”. If you like the bar, sit down & order a drink; if the boys are not to your liking, it’s OK to walk straight back out. 
In order to not appear like a first-timer, always insist on picking your preferred seat by yourself: usually at the back, a bit away from the stage but with clear view of it and sometimes a bonus view of the boys changing area or gym. Some bars also have upstairs seating that is worth checking out. Try to find place where you can have space for a boy to sit next to you if you plan to do that.  
If you arrive late after the show had finished and only want to off a guy, it’s worth saying that to the mamasan thus avoiding pay for drink/entrance. Bars are usually more flexible when it’s about closing time, especially when it’s low season.
Do not trust the mamasans; well some are OK, but understand that some say anything to make a sale. The mamasans or waiters may sit down and start talking to you. if you don’t want them there, ask them to go. If they stay, they’ll expect a tip.
Enjoy the boys. If you identify a boy you like, you can either engage the mamasan to bring him over, or wave the boy over to sit with you. If a boy sits with you without invitation, feel free to politely ask him to move on & don’t tip him.” 
Employ usual precautions with your valuables, but don’t distress yourself too much. Thailand is a safe country; boys are much more honest than their counterparts in most countries; and there are (almost) no reports of pickpocketing, theft and the like.
Factors to consider when selecting a boy: eye contact; smile; behavior with other boys or patrons; sitting close; body language intimacy; his English; kisses; physical contact; gropes. He might be shy in certain aspects, but if he’s off in most/all the above – he isn’t the One.
“After introducing yourselves & making polite conversation, if you want to off him – ask what he likes and doesn’t like in bed. If you have specific needs, check each one with him. Make sure there is no hesitancy in his replies. For example, if you have doubts about his willingness to kiss, ask to kiss him there. Some might not like doing that in the gogo bar, so I’m not sure refusal should rule him out. OTOH, if he makes a really good effort – you can remove any doubts about that, which helps to rule him in.
Maybe try some discrete fondling. Be aware that acceptable behavior varies from bar to bar. In certain bars, the boys will get everything out only on stage. In others: they will strip off & sit on your lap naked, then if you really desire – suck you off in the bar. However, in the majority of gogo bars, the boys usually keep everything in their underwear & keep up appearances on the premises. If in doubt, watch what’s going on with other patrons, or wait for the boy to make the first risqué move.”
ASK HIM WHAT HIS RATE IS. “If he asks for too much (for you), counter with a lower offer. If he won’t settle at a reasonable price for you, avoid prolonged haggling. If you decide not to off the boy, politely tip him (100-150) and send him away.”
Make politely clear to him that if he doesn’t perform as agreed, he won’t be paid per agreement. For example: “no power, no money....if it doesn't get hard, I'm not paying.”
Finally, “check his ID card to ensure he is 18 (including that his  picture matches his face) BEFORE paying any off fee!”
It’s acceptable to politely inquire if other staff members at the bar (waiter, barman, mamasan, DJ) are also for offing.
At the hotel:
Show respect for the boy on the way to the room, and in the room: continue polite conversation; offer to buy him a snack, or give him something from the minibar; invite him to shower first (if not together); etc.”
In a few hotels, he might have to register at reception. 
“When you off him the first time, don’t hurry with a promise to off him again; a ‘maybe’ is enough.  OTOH, if you are impressed with the boy & want to see him again, you may want to secure the next appointment right there in your room before he leaves. 
Tips are paid before he departs. You should have planned carefully so you have the exact notes to pay him exactly what you intend (and extra if he deserves it).”
And again - DivineMadman’s motto: “Don't over-think; Be open; Be kind. Have fun.”
 
Most of the quotes above are by z909 from: 
 

here is some more anecdotal evidence about the safety and honesty of Thais in general: when people on motorcycles park their bikes, they ALWAYS leave the helmets just hanging on the mirror or similar. NOBODY, EVER, locks it to their bike or in the compartment under the seat. Neither do I with my bike/helmet. That's unheard of in other countries, including all of Europe. Never are any helmets stolen here, though.
However, there is ONE serious safety risk in Bangkok that the OP should be worried about (pretty much the only one, really): a sprained ankle from the notoriously treacherous sidewalks of Bangkok, with loose tiles, potholes and unexpected poles to bump into when looking at one's phone (or companion) and whatever else. That's a REAL risk in Bangkok, unlike all the others he has posted about.
Now with that in mind he should stop worrying, go with the flow and have fun.

Excerpted from MSN
Ten teenagers were among the 39 people found dead in a refrigerated trailer in Essex last month, police have confirmed.
Essex Police on Friday released the names of the 31 men and eight women whose bodies were found in an industrial park in Grays on 23 October, after confirming on Thursday they were all Vietnamese.
Pham Thi Tra My, 26-year-old woman from Ha Tinh
Nguyen Dinh Lurong, 20-year-old man from Ha Tinh
Nguyen Huy Phong, 35-year-old man from Ha Tinh
Vo Nhan Du, 19-year-old man from Ha Tinh
Tran Manh Hung, 37-year-old man from Ha Tinh
Tran Khanh Tho, 18-year-old man from Ha Tinh
Vo Van Linh, 25-year-old man from Ha Tinh
Nguyen Van Nhan, 33-year-old man from Ha Tinh
Bui Phan Thang, 37-year-old man from Ha Tinh
Nguyen Huy Hung, 15-year-old boy from Ha Tinh
Tran Thi Tho, 21-year-old woman from Nghe An
Bui Thi Nhung, 19-year-old woman from Nghe An
Vo Ngoc Nam, 28-year-old man from Nghe An
Nguyen Dinh Tu, 26-year-old man from Nghe An
Le Van Ha, 30-year-old man from Nghe An
Tran Thi Ngoc, 19-year-old woman from Nghe An
Nguyen Van Hung, 33-year-old man from Nghe An
Hoang Van Tiep, 18-year-old man from Nghe An
Cao Tien Dung, 37-year-old man from Nghe An
Cao Huy Thanh, 33-year-old man from Nghe An
Tran Thi Mai Nhung, 18-year-old woman from Nghe An
Nguyen Minh Quang, 20-year-old man from Nghe An
Le Trong Thanh, 44-year-old man from Dien Chau
Pham Thi Ngoc Oanh, 28-year-old woman from Nghe An
Hoang Van Hoi, 24-year-old man from Nghe An
Nguyen Tho Tuan, 25-year-old man from Nghe An
Dang Huu Tuyen, 22-year-old man from Nghe An
Nguyen Trong Thai, 26-year-old man from Nghe An
Nguyen Van Hiep, 24-year-old man from Nghe An
Nguyen Thi Van, 35-year-old woman from Nghe An
Tran Hai Loc, 35-year-old man from Nghe An
Duong Minh Tuan, 27-year-old man from Quang Binh
Nguyen Ngoc Ha, 32-year-old man from Quang Binh
Nguyen Tien Dung, 33-year-old man from Quang, Binh
Phan Thi Thanh, 41-year-old woman from Hai Phong
Nguyen Ba Vu Hung, 34-year-old man from Thua Tien Hue
Dinh Dinh Thai Quyen, 18-year-old man from Hai Phong
Tran Ngoc Hieu, 17-year-old boy from Hai Duong
Dinh Dinh Binh, 15-year-old boy from Hai Phong
https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/uknews/all-39-victims-of-essex-lorry-identified/ar-BBWu4vh?li=BBr8Cnr
 
 
 

I’m in Pattaya now staying in a non gay hotel as I like the pool and gym. This hotel insists on visitors leaving their Id at reception and if the guest leaves unaccompanied they telephone asking if everything is ok. I’ve had a boy from Laos and he left his passport. They looked carefully at the id of one young looking boy and glanced at me saying “ok”. Whilst I have had no recent problems with boys in my hotel rooms as regards honesty, my money and valuables including an expensive watch go in the room safe,

while butterflying has it's own advantages so does staying with known quality.
I'm not sure it's related to growing in years  or just  getting more experience  but when I see two guys smiling at me in the bar, one known and other new to me  there's at ;east 60% chance I'd go with one I know already.

perhaps to lift anybody's spirit even more we should remind ourselves that  story reported by paulsf
https://www.gayguides.com/forums/topic/10874-different-kind-of-bangkok-happy-ending/
 

Judging by what I’ve observed—and practiced—at Luckyboys and others places, the incremental red notes the guys collect in tips are becoming an ever increasing share of their overall income. 
They realize that they can easily cover their daily living expenses (food, transportation and time with friends after work) by sitting with a handful of customers and sharing small talk and some physical contact for short periods. 
It’s a win-win for all concerned. The customer gets a nice experience (and the opportunity to interview different guys), the bar gets the drink income and the boy gets tips—and a possible off on a return visit. 
No, it doesn’t provide same same financial punch that a ST offers but it does cover some costs.
Waiters long ago figured this out and acquire a more consistent income along with the possibility of the occasional off.
And for me at least it’s a lot more entertaining than scanning through the on-line offerings.
 

Absolutely right.  What the boy does with the money is nobody's business but his own.  I can't think of any job where how much the payee should receive is based upon what the payer thinks he will do with the money. 
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't understand farang who spend a lot of money just on airfare alone going to Thailand, stay in nice hotels, enjoy good food in expensive restaurants, drink as if the world will end tomorrow, and then try to justify giving as little as they can get away with to the boys.  And meanwhile the boys are the reason these same farang go to Thailand in the first place.
If you don't want to pay these boys 1000 to 1500 baht, which is a hell of a lot less than you would pay anywhere else, for what they do for you, then stay home and masturbate to a porn site.

That may have been the case years ago, but it hasn't been that way for a very long time.  These days the boys are lucky to be offed at all.  It's a little difficult to get offed if the bars are virtually devoid of customers or the customers that do come no longer spend as much money as they used to due to the strong baht.  That's one of the reasons so many of them have turned to the apps in hopes of getting a few customers here and there.
Times have changed in the bars, and for the boys the changes have not been good.  Most of the boys are lucky if working in the bars brings them enough money to barely survive.
I doubt there are any boys anymore who make 1500 x 25 = 37,500 a month.  It just doesn't happen.  Even in the "golden years" of the bars, it rarely happened to other than the few most popular boys.
 

I too find the convenient cynicism of a minority of punters disheartening. I learned a lot from P when we met in 2003  and from his friends, too.  Firstly, that the imperative- both religious and social- to send money to parents was overwhelming  and that some guys would prefer to go hungry than fail in this responsibility. Secondly, that the guys looked after each other and so if one was going through a bad time in terms of "offs", his friends would take care of him.
It may be that things have change on the scene now  and I suspect that some of the more popular guys in the big Bangkok bars where Chinese clients are dominant are doing very well nowadays. However, in the period when I was  a punter, the one way out of the industry and the achievement of  relative comfort was to find a falang (or falangs) who' go the extra mile in terms of support.