traveller123

My personal view. This thread has become far too personal and overly political to the point where it might continue for months filled with personal attacks - that get nowhere! I think enough as been said. 
I wrote in another thread recently that two blacks don't make etc. I loathe and detest with great intensity what Russia is doing in Ukraine and I applaud the USA, the UK, NATO and others for helping Ukraine fight the invasion.
But some making similar comments conveniently forget, as Moses has rightly pointed out, Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and other US invasions, several on totally wrong political assumptions and some totally illegal. Children are still being killed each year as a result of the USA dropping over Laos a planeload of bombs, most of the cluster variety, on average every 8 minutes, 24 hours a day for a period of nine whole years in the 1960s/70s! Some 30% of those bombs failed to explode on impact. 80 million bombs remained in the ground. By last year, only 300,000 had been cleared. Since 'peace' in 1973, these bombs have killed an additional 20,000 Lao people. Of this number nearly half were young children. The USA has provided $190 million to clear the bombs. Laos estimates it will take until 2030 before all the unexploded bombs can be cleared - but that goal will depend on a lot more money becoming avaiable. Others have estimated that at the present rate it will take 200 years. Has any US citizen ever been indicted and jailed for this terror and continuing murder? None of which I am aware.
An indication of the problem is the 750lb bomb dropped 20 meters from the remote village Nonsomboun housing 1,000 people. This is the amount of time and effort it took before it could be destroyed.
"After 53 days of careful planning and team-work between HALO [Hazardous Area Life-supprt Organisation] staff and the local community, the bomb was safely destroyed with no damage to the village. It took 100 HALO staff, the assistance of 150 villagers, 4,000 tonnes of sand and 200,000 sandbags to safely destroy the bomb."
https://www.halotrust.org/where-we-work/south-asia/laos/
[Note: HALO has been working in Ukraine since 2014.]
That was ONE BOMB! Seriously think about that and reflect on it for a few moments. Like Cambodia, this was all a covert secret operation by the CIA. And the bombing was undetaken AFTER the Treaty signed in Geneva in 1962 in which the USA was one of 14 countries (including the Soviet Union and China) which were forbidden from invasion of and etablishment of military bases in Laos. It was also illegal under the US system where only  Congress can declare war.
As a result of illegal US military activities, 10% of the population of Laos were murdered. A further 20% were wounded. 750,000 Lao people became refugeees.
Those speaking out so forcefully about Ukraine should remember these facts. They should also watch this documetary about the US clandestine war in Laos with its details about the CIA's secret airport in the Lao jungle at Long Cheng. Three journalists who stumbled on it by chance witnessed one US plane landing or taking off every minute.
https://www.history.com/news/laos-most-bombed-country-vietnam-war
https://reliefweb.int/report/lao-peoples-democratic-republic/mag-removes-300000th-unexploded-bomb-laos
 

Part 18: More fun in Phuket... 
With no go go bars being re-opened (yet), to get some fun in Phuket you have to scroll the apps, venture to the massage shops or just flirt with boys you like in the nightlife. 
There are a few massage places catering for us kind of people in the Paradise Complex. Most of them situated in the middle Soi. The one directly in front of the hotel tower. 

4 Massage, right on the first picture. Actually very close to entrance of the hotel. 
The most boys and greatest variation of types I found on offer at 4 Massage. Also Blue Dolphin has his fare share of boys. But don't forget to check out the massage shops with smaller amount of boys. As there can be a stunner also. I found for example a very goodlooking boy at  Sabai Sabai. 

In the evening it was time to enjoy the nightlife again. 
I couldn't find Spartacus. Google made me believe Spartacus was in the beginning of the Soi where Zag club is. But nothing open there. The first open establishment on the left side when you enter is Zag. On the right side there's another bar but is seems to be a normal bar. No gogo boys or anything exciting... So maybe they moved to another place that is unfindable, or your information is unfortunately not up to date.. 
After a few drinks on the terrace of G Club I was already feeling a bit tipsy. I was ready to call it a night and return alone to my hotel room. But on Grindr I got a message from a guy inviting me for a drink in Zag Club. It was a cute guy, with sexy body (see for yourself on picture below...). So it would be rude if me to say no. 

It was again a 6pack that seduced me...
The guy said he had a good deal for me. Asking 3000 baht for a nice night ST. I replied by saying that was indeed a good deal. But not for me, for him. He laughed: "oh you know the normal prices, right"... So we agreed at 2000 baht. My hotel (Best Western Patong) is walking distance from Paradise Complex. But as we all know, Thais don't like to walk. So my guy insisted we would take his motorbike. Entering the hotel was no problem at all. Nobody asked anything, no registration needed so also no joiner fee. 
We decided to save water by shower together. In the shower his was eager, started kissing me straight away. And it didn't take long for him to be on his knees in front of me. We continued on the bed. Tasted everything on the menu and it was some time and money well spent. The guy is working in a 5 star resort in the North of the island. Well...he gave me a 5 star service too! 😁

Isaan. But I really should visit Jomtien more often

I retired about 7 yrs ago after working long hours in a stressful job for the previous 14 years or so. Now, I take it easy and go on at least 1 long (for me) vacation of 6-8 weeks each year. And as a way to keep somewhat busy, I plan this well ahead of time, researching flights and hotels before booking them well ahead of time. And checking out sights to see in the cities to be visited.
None of us is sure when we'll go, but I have worked with a financial planner to somewhat ensure that I can live fairly comfortably till age 90. Both my dad and elder brother died at an early age (52 and 42) and my male siblings and I all have had heart problems. So, the end for me maybe 10-15 yrs away. I am, however, hoping that I don't suffer much at the end.
I keep in touch with friends locally and others scattered around other cities across the world. These friends include ones I went to school & university with in another country. I sometimes meet up with some of the classmates who now live in the same city I do. And also meet up with friends who I volunteered with for a number of years.
How do I pass time otherwise? I cook, go to the gym and watch lot of Netflix. I am now also back to watching BL series after a break of few months. So, catching up on series I've missed.
Still lots to do in the years ahead. Many more countries to visit end enjoy. And many more boys to meet up with and have fun with!

From The  Nation

BANGKOK, Sept 17 (The Nation Thailand/ANN): A widely shared video clip shows Atthachai Argudom, a 19-year-old student at Udon Thani Technical College, pulling the unconscious 12-year-old out of shin-deep water.
The drama unfolded next to a power pole outside Satri Rachinuthit School in the Northeast province on Friday (Sept 16).
Witnesses suspected that electricity had leaked from the power pole.
Atthachai suffered electric shocks during the rescue that he said had left him feeling weak.
Both he and the schoolboy were taken to high ground inside the school compound before being rushed to hospital.
Udon Thani governor Siam Sirimongkol visited Atthachai in hospital on Saturday. He thanked the young man for his selfless compassion and gave him money to buy a new mobile phone.
Atthachai had dropped his phone into the floodwater in the scramble to rescue the boy.
The schoolboy’s mother, Kanokrat Loeichaiyaphum, also visited her son’s rescuer in hospital. She said her son would have drowned had Atthachai not pulled him from the floodwater.
“My thanks to this man who saved my son’s life. Thank you for your bravery and your good deed,” the 45-year-old said at Atthachai’s bedside.
His grandmother Supannee Saelim, 65, said that Atthachai has lived with her since he was a child following his parents’ divorce.
“I am proud of him and happy that he’s safe,” she told the media.

Sean Connery will always be James Bond

Part 14: Boyztown 
Yesterday I've spent most of my time at the beach. From Jomtien I was walking to the Dongtan side of the beach. I passed a few of the beach lounge renters until I came to a very good looking young guy with a good body. His shirt was open so you good see his well defined torso. Off course I didn't need to walk any further and I rented a sun lounger with him. It costs 100 baht per day.

Around 5pm I returned to the Agate for a shower and some rest. Because I had plans to visit Boyztown in the evening. 
Around 10pm I had my walk around Boyztown and neighbouring streets. 
A bomb looked they had no customers as when I passed by and looked inside there were no boys on stage. Only few shirtless boys on their phones sitting outside.
A soi further it was very quiet. Dream Boys had their outdoor lighting on, but there was nobody standing outside and the door was closed. So also this was not very inviting for me to go in. On the opposite side of the road, at X-boys, I did see a few boys sitting outside. But not my type of guys.

Toyboys had a stage full of boys in underwear. They were all wearing something else, so I assume the boys were wearing their own underwear and not something provided by the bar. The guys were wearing number tags. I did see different types of boys. From skinny twinks, to rougher looking farmer guys and hubjs with a little more muscles. 
But my final destination was Boyz Boyz Boyz. I wanted to catch their 10:30pm show. It was only after I was given a seat and ordered my drink that I was having a good look around and realised what I was looking at: 25 boys on stage, also here all different types present. But only 3 shirtless. The rest of the boys were wearing jeans and shirt. In a boybar, where they try to sell you a boy... As a customer I want to see the quality of the goods I'm buying first. And that's hard to judge when there's too much packing material around it. Also the boys did not wear number tags. So asking papasan for information about certain boys was a bit difficult. 

About 40 customers inside. Including a hug group of around 20 people (half of them women) that were having some kind of party. Besides me only 3 other falang, rest were Asian customers. 
A drink cost 350 baht and with this you get some free popcorn. The signs "Everyone here doesn't have prostitution" made me laugh... Yeah right... 
The show started with the candle act you see in many boybars... There was another act with 4 boys with towels around their waste doing some erotic dance/striptease and underneath the towel they were wearing see-trough underwear with half hard cocks... Off course there was a ladyboy and also a guy doing a playback act. Both with background dancers. First part of the show ended with a very nice b-boy act that was Iver very quickly and could have go on a little longer because it was fun to watch.

I just finished my drink when there was a little break in the show and all boys came back on stage. Still almost all boys in full clothing. There was one more very goodlooking guy that took off his shirt now. My type of guy: not too skinny, a bit of muscles. Cute face. 
There was another very cute boy in the bar. He was having a bit curly hair, young look. Stood out from the others because he was a bit different type. He somehow had a bit of a French look over him. But apparently there was a "waiting list" for him. First he was having a drink with the guy next to me. As soon as he had finished that drink, he went on to a next customer on the other side of the bar. Also he was fully clothed. 
I asked papasan for some information about the boys on stage. "Only have tops, no gays". When I told him I am top myself, he suddenly had some "gays who can do anything" on offer. Yeah right. Information from this papasan was not going to be very accurate and helpful I thought. 

I decided I had seen enough and took a Bolt taxi back to Jomtien. When I walked to my hotel I went on Grindr and a goodlooking Cambodian boy that sometimes works "freelance" at @home bar asked me for a drink. Decided to go for it. And it only took one drink for me and him and a small conversation to decide he was going to be my catch if the day. Bar fee of 300 baht and drinks paid, and my hotel room at Agate was conveniently just around the corner... Boy asked 1500 baht. Prove that Pattaya prices are still lower than Bangkok... 

Sean Connery will always be James Bond

Part 12: Arriving in Pattaya 
To be clear: I off course mean that they fly from Chiang Mai to U-Tapao Airport (also known as Pattaya Airport, but still about 1hr drive to Jomtien). I arranged Mike Pattaya taxi service to pick me up from the airport (800 baht) and when I arrived his driver was waiting for me with a sign with my name on it. Unfortunately his car did not start. Another driver came to help. They used jumper cables to start the engine and within 10 minutes we were on our way. 
In Pattaya I always stayed close to Boyztown the precious times and actually never explored Jomtien.
Yes, I did take the songtaew to go to the gay beach (Dongtan Beach), but did not go to the Jomtien complex bars before. I decided that needed to change. And because forum members here had good experiences at The Agate, I booked my room there. Like others wrote before; I got a great deal booking directly with the hotel. Only 1000 baht per night without breakfast. Much cheaper than booking it via booking.com or Agoda.
Why I skipped the Jomtien complex till now? Probably because Boyztown could give me everything I needed. My taste of boys is more on the masculine / muscular side. And I always read that Jomtien caters more for the lovers of slim/skinny boys. But as I’m open to try new things, and if needed Boyztown is only a short ride away, I’m staying in Jomtien this time. 

First impression of Agate is very good. Friendly staff at check in and goodlooking room with comfortable bed. Since I'm in Thailand I've also had beds that were a bit on the hard side, but the bed in Agate feels good. 
While showering I was thinking why is there this little bench in the shower? I could only think about one thing: so that a boy can sit on there while giving you a blowjob in the shower.... Something to try out the next days.... Lol

Staying in the middle of the gay area is nice. But it can also be a little annoying when you have to go pass by pushy massageboys at Soda Massage every time you go to the beach, 7-eleven or dinner. Specially when a few of their boys already chatted with you on Grindr and the fact you have shown them "some interest" makes them directly think you want massage today with them... Good that I quickly found a shortcut: via the garage of Agate you reach the main road directly, without having to pass by massage parlours or bars. Can be nice to know if you just want to leave the Jomtien complex without being hassled. Or if you want to bring a boy from Boyztown back to Agate without having to walk with him trough Jomtien complex (I've heard some boys don't like parade trough the complex).

Jomtien beach 
I went for a walk on the beach and noticed how pretty Jomtien beach actually is. With (palm)trees growing ON the beach. Giving it the real tropical atmosphere. Hopefully the weather in the next days will be good so I get the chance to actually lay on the beach an afternoon. Relax, read. 
After dinner it was time to make a round in Jomtien to get a first impression of the nightlife here. But I will write about that later. 

Hello Emiel1981.
I am truly happy that you had a great time with Woody and his partner.  They are a wonderful team and a true pleasure to be with.
DM me if you want to meet up in Pattaya.  I finally made the move for retirement from Europe to Thailand - however, I am in Jomtien. It is not yet a week that I am here - and my life is upside down with all the things that need to be done to settle into my new Thailand retiree life.

Part 11: Up north
Yes guys, I'm still in Thailand. 
The reason I've been quiet in my trip report, is because I was behaving like a tourist up north. Meaning doing some siteseeing instead of boy hunting. And I suppose you guys are more interested in the boy hunting part of my month in Thailand than lots of pictures of the beautiful places I've visited. So... That's why. 
I flew to Chiang Rai where I was meeting my driver and guide Woody at the airport. He is from Chiang Mai but drove to Chiang Rai so he could first show me around there for two days before driving to Chiang Mai together. Woody was actually recommended to me by @bkkmfj2648, who used his services on a previous trip. He also advertises on Siamroads. 

Woody praying in a cave we visited
In Chiang Rai Woody was showing me some temples and "the black house". A museum in a few original Thai houses. The artist had an obsession with dead animals and cocks... I couldn't let the opportunity in the museum pass by to make this picture:

Woody is a very friendly and cute boy. Well... He's 38 now so don't think we can call him a boy still? We all get older... Lol 
He and his partner met when they both were working in a massage place. Besides being a massage boy he also was already guide and driver for tourists. They both retired from the massage job, but are now running a gay massage shop together in Chiang Mai. With lots of nice boys: Classic House Massage. Check out their website. Aways better to first contact them via line for up to date pictures of their staff and so they could arrange your favourite boy to be at the shop when you come. 

Classic House Massage in Chiang Mai 
Woody told me that business in his massage shop was getting a littlebit better, but still far far behind from what it used to be pre-covid. Till now most of the clients are Thai tourist. The Falang still not coming it seems. Other gay-orientated businesses in Chiang Mai also start opening up. Ram Bar is having their daily ladyshow again at 9h30pm. Its a nice and fun show. Including male backup dancers. Specially in the weekend this can get busy. But big part of the audience was straight couples just having a fun night out at a ladyboy show. Also Adams Apple opend again. But I didn't go. I was not in the mood of traveling all the way to the other side of town to probably find out the place is empty. As that chance was big as the evenings I was in Chiang Mai it was raining. And from my experiences in Bangkok I know what that means for the amount of guests in boybars...

Show in Ram Bar
Did nothing naughty happen up north? Of course... But not much actually. One night I invited a muscleboy over to my hotel room after chatting with him on Grindr. A bit older (37yrs), muscles... He could work in Tawan in Bangkok. That type of guy. He asked only 600 baht so I did not even try to negotiate the price... He was a great deep sucker and was also a willing bottom. So that was a good night...
A few times a week there are direct flights between Chiang Mai and Pattaya with Thai Lion Air. And that's the next destination I choose for my Thailand trip. Probabaly some more to update you about in Pattaya than I had the last days up in the North... 

there's no such thing as silly war. Maybe on TV but on ground it's just destruction and immense tragedy to all involved and bystanders too 

I might know how you feel. Maybe. But my similar story is about someone I had known for almost a decade.
It was January 2011 when I met perhaps the cutest guy I had ever laid eyes on. I was walking through Sunee when he noticed me first and said, "Hi." I immediately shifted my gaze to see who belonged to that arrestingly cute voice and inhaled the most addicting smile you could possibly imagine. He was young, 21, slight of build and with the androgynous good looks of a Korean boy band member. Of course I sat down. He wasn't only a charmer but an intoxicating conversationalist as well. He said he learned English at the Catholic school he attended while growing up. Before we left the bar, after he agreed to come back to my hotel, he stopped me and said he had to warn me. He didn't have six-pack abs. I felt so sorry for him, imagining such a comment could only come from someone who went to a customer's hotel room and got at least halfway undressed only to be sent away for lacking a perfectly chiseled torso. How painful that must have been. So I lifted up my shirt and said, "Never mind. Neither do I."
At my hotel, I asked him if he wanted to sit out on the balcony and have a beer. I figured his answer would be no, that as soon as he could he would want to take his earnings to NAB or wherever else 21-year-olds and their friends hung out to enjoy their youth. But he replied, "Why not?"
So I got to enjoy his company for a good hour more before we headed inside to shower and then to bed.
But we didn't stay on the bed for long. He had that slight build -- and it turned out a beautiful body that a six-pack might have actually marred. We were in the missionary position when I decided to take advantage of his 49 kilograms, maneuver him to the edge of the bed, plant my feet on the floor, and pick him up.
It's easy to get some really powerful thrusts in this position, and his moans sounded like he might have been in pain. I stopped and asked if he was OK. He said, "Better than OK. I love it." When I continued, his moans started up again, his eyes rolled back into his head and I realized I wasn't the only one intoxicated with my partner that night.
Eventually it was time for him to leave and as he was sliding out the door he looked back and said, "Come see me next time you're in Thailand."
I was floored. I thought we had made a real connection and that he would ask me for my contact details. I can't describe to you the hurt and disappointment I felt when he essentially said, "So long."
But I was in Pattaya again some 11 months later. Of course I went looking for ... let's call him Dave. I found him working at another bar. Or should I say he found me. "Hey, Biggus," I heard an arrestingly cute voice call out. I immediately knew it was him. I told him how hurt I was when he left last time not asking for my contact details and essentially saying, "Have a nice life." He said he didn't ask for fear of being rejected.
We went on to have a lot of fun over the years. He called me once and insisted I come out for Songkran. I told him I had heard Songkran was miserable for foreigners, that we were always being targeted with ice water even if we were on our way to work. He said, "Don't be a baby. I'll protect you."
I did go to Thailand that April, for two weeks, and to this day they remain the greatest two weeks of my life. I still use a picture from that vacation as my smartphone wallpaper to remind me that I once had a perfect day. We spent a few more Songkrans together. We'd stay up all night at the SK party -- a massive electronic dance music event that must have attracted 10,000 of the hottest young Asian men on the planet -- then spend all day water-gun fighting along Silom. After several days of full-on hedonism, we would move to Pattaya. There we would spend several days redefining hedonism. For New Year's we would go to the White Party. He met me once for a long weekend in Seoul. The last Songkran I saw him at, though, something was different. He was on edge, like he was about to lose his temper, like he was using all his energy to hold it in. He insisted we leave the SK party almost as soon as we got there and go to Silom. I had spent hundreds of dollars on tickets for Dave, his best friend and myself.
Never mind. When our taxi let us out on Silom, I started heading to Soi 2, thinking we were going to DJ Station, but Dave said no, we were going to Soi 4. I didn't understand. There was nothing happening this late on Soi 4, and just sitting down drinking was never how we spent our time together, at least not after that first night. His best friend looked at me apprehensively, then looked at Dave and said, "That's bad." He left. I followed Dave into Soi 4. We sat down and ordered drinks. A few minutes after the drinks arrived someone who left as soon as he popped up handed Dave something and we left. On our way out the soi, one of the street vendors along Silom threw a bag to Dave. He caught it, and we got into a taxi.
Dave told the driver to take us to my hotel. Already, I thought? Even though it was only 2am or so, I was incredibly drunk, so I went along with it. What else was I gonna do? And anyway I needed to relieve my bladder and wouldn't mind doing so in my clean hotel bathroom.
But when I got out of the bathroom, Dave was smoking crystal meth.
Our relationship didn't last much longer. Sure, we texted but only so Dave could ask me for money and call me vile names when I refused.
In December 2020, almost a year into the pandemic and years since I had blocked Dave on Line, his best friend called me to say he was dead.
At this point, I hadn't known anything but pain from Dave for years. Still, though, knowing someone I had spent so many great nights and days with was dead, well, it still hurts.
So maybe I feel your pain. I keep Dave in my memory because that's all I can do.
 
 

I don't "act" gay, as far as I know and I've been told by people they can't believe I'm gay.

I live my life, as I want. Don't advertise it but when I have been asked, I reply "why, are you interested, what you want to do?"

I have straight friends from high school that I'm still in touch with, they never ask and I never bring it up, but without a doubt they know....just isn't part of our conversations, we talk about their kids and I talk about my dog or my travels.

Couldn't imagine being afraid of enjoying my life as I want, I'm not 18 & confused.

Perhaps even worse is when a boy you care about just disappears and you have no idea what happened to him, even after many years have passed. Around 16 years ago I would occasionally go to the up-market Italian restaurant Zanotti on Saladaeng. Sometimes a client would take me. At others I would go with friends. Expensive at evening time, it had a very good set lunch at a very reasonable price. There was one waiter who I found especially attractive. Mid-20s, he came from a town in Isaan. His English was good and his smile virtually to die for. I usually chatted with him. Over time we became friends although he always said he was not gay.
As his room was not far from my condo, I invited him round for drinks after work one evening. I was surprised that he came. Soon he would come quite frequently, almost always sleeping overnight on the sofa. For his birthday, I got a cake from the Mandarin Oriental shop and he was so happy. He said he'd never had a birthday cake before! Only on 2 or 3 occasions would he knock on my door and ask to sleep with me. Although i was not in love with him, I loved his company. He could be wonderfully funny and we spent many evenings on the sofa just chatting and laughing. I considered him a lovely close friend.
After about a year, he and several other staff left Zanotti following a disagreement with the manager. He told me that of the 10% service charge, the manager kept 8.5% leaving the staff to share just 1.5%. Eventually he told me that he wanted to work overseas. The Mango Tree restaurant (near Tawan Bar) had a namesake in Dubai. He had been offered a job there. I checked the contract with which I told him there were several problems. He tried to bring them up with the manager here but was told it was take it or leave it. So he signed and flew off to Dubai. In several early emails he told me how much he was enjoying the work and being in Dubai. Soon, though, things began to turn sour and he wanted to break his contract and just leave. He did have his passport but no air ticket which he was saving up for. I told him just to get the ticket and I would pay him the balance.
Back in Bangkok, he did a couple of part-time restaurant jobs before he was offered a post on one of the Royal Viking Line Cruise ships. Hugely excited, off he went to somewhere in the Baltic. When in ports he would email me saying he loved the job, despite the hard work. Eventually he had some leave coming up. He wrote and asked if he could stay with me in Bangkok. Of course I agreed. Having given me his dates, he said he'd contact me when he got back to Thailand. Sure enough, he mailed me to say he had arrived but would first go to see his family. He'd come to Bangkok after 6 days. That was the last I heard from him!
I mailed him several times. They were unanswered. I left sms messages on his phone which was still working. No reply. I called and just got the ring tone. After a couple of months I wrote that I did not care what had happened to him - maybe he'd married, maybe found a long-term boyfriend, maybe been in a bad accident - all I wanted to know was that he was OK and perhaps see him if he came to Bangkok. If he needed help, I was here. Again no reply. 
I hope he is somewhere and happily settled down with the good job he deserves and a love life that he enjoys. If I could just get one mail saying that, I'd be really happy for him. It would also set my mind at ease. My fear is that something happened when he was back with his family and he died. It's the not knowing that occasionally, even now, gnaws at me.

I love good wine as do many of my friends, but not sweet wines!

When I met my partner we agreed that it was crucial that we knew we could live together and be happy and that we couldn't judge that from my 2/3 week holidays to Thailand.
Hence he came to England to stay with me for four months initially and then for almost two years during which we had a UK Civil Partnership ceremony. (His mother had passed away 4 months before his first visit, he wouldn't have come while she was ill)
To backup floridarob's post at the end of his first visit he wanted to go to pray at the nearest Thai temple (about 30 miles from my home) while there he was talking to a lady cleaning the temple who gave him phone numbers for some Thai ladies who lived in my home town. As he was returning to Thailand in a couple of days he didn't contact anyone until he returned for his second visit. The result was he met a circle of about 15 Thai ladies who he would meet weekly for food, drinks parties etc, his visa allowed him to work and through their introductions he got a couple of part time jobs, which although low paid (minimum wage) made him feel very wealthy)
 He is very friendly and easy going which along with being a good cook of Thai food meant he slotted in with the Thai ladies very quickly.
 
 
 

When I met my partner we agreed that it was crucial that we knew we could live together and be happy and that we couldn't judge that from my 2/3 week holidays to Thailand.
Hence he came to England to stay with me for four months initially and then for almost two years during which we had a UK Civil Partnership ceremony. (His mother had passed away 4 months before his first visit, he wouldn't have come while she was ill)
To backup floridarob's post at the end of his first visit he wanted to go to pray at the nearest Thai temple (about 30 miles from my home) while there he was talking to a lady cleaning the temple who gave him phone numbers for some Thai ladies who lived in my home town. As he was returning to Thailand in a couple of days he didn't contact anyone until he returned for his second visit. The result was he met a circle of about 15 Thai ladies who he would meet weekly for food, drinks parties etc, his visa allowed him to work and through their introductions he got a couple of part time jobs, which although low paid (minimum wage) made him feel very wealthy)
 He is very friendly and easy going which along with being a good cook of Thai food meant he slotted in with the Thai ladies very quickly.
 
 
 

When I met my partner we agreed that it was crucial that we knew we could live together and be happy and that we couldn't judge that from my 2/3 week holidays to Thailand.
Hence he came to England to stay with me for four months initially and then for almost two years during which we had a UK Civil Partnership ceremony. (His mother had passed away 4 months before his first visit, he wouldn't have come while she was ill)
To backup floridarob's post at the end of his first visit he wanted to go to pray at the nearest Thai temple (about 30 miles from my home) while there he was talking to a lady cleaning the temple who gave him phone numbers for some Thai ladies who lived in my home town. As he was returning to Thailand in a couple of days he didn't contact anyone until he returned for his second visit. The result was he met a circle of about 15 Thai ladies who he would meet weekly for food, drinks parties etc, his visa allowed him to work and through their introductions he got a couple of part time jobs, which although low paid (minimum wage) made him feel very wealthy)
 He is very friendly and easy going which along with being a good cook of Thai food meant he slotted in with the Thai ladies very quickly.
 
 
 

Part 10: Last evening in Bangkok (for now...) 
Yesterday was my last evening in Bangkok. I will go travels around Thailand now for a few week (up north, Pattaya, Phuket...) and will be back on Bangkok on September 23 for 5 more night before I fly home.

The evening didn't start well... It was raining hard, the roads flooded. And the hourly forecast didn't look good either.
But after about 1hr the rain stopped and it was "safe" to head out to the bars. I had some unfinished business to take care of before leaving Bangkok tomorrow...
First of all there is the guy on Grindr who is for days already stalking me. He works in Freshboys. Don't wanna just ignore or block him because I want to be able to go to Freshboys again without "losing face". He looks nice and sweet, not sure if he will be my type in real life. So didn't want to invite him to my room without seeing him in the bar first. But he kept trying. Even on his day off. 

Decided to go for a drink in Freshboys first and buying the boy a drink too. So at least I've shown him my good heart. Lol
Gave him besides a drink an extra 100 baht bill and told him I had to leave to Tawan because I needed to show my friend that place. Which was actually true as I met up with another solo traveler and we agreed to go to Freshboys en Tawan together that night.
Because of the rain, the steps at Freshboys was wet and slippery. The guy I was with slipped and felt down, taking me with him in his fall as I was walking in front of him. I had a soft landing, on top of him. He took a harder hit on the concrete stairs. But was also fine. Thank god. He was even laughing saying that cracked his back without having to pay for a massage... But let this be a warning whenever around in rain: stairs can be slippery! 
We arrived at Tawan around 11pm. The show didn't start yet. When we looked around we found out why: we were the only customers... All the rest (around 20 boys again, same like the day before) were Tawan staff. We had our drinks, talked to the (I suppose) manager and I off course invited 6pack guy (see report part 8 in this post about one day earlier in Tawan) to come and sit with me.
"I take care of you tonight?" he asked. Oh yes you can! Understandable, with no other customers in the bar, Tawan decided not to have a show that night. I was entertained by 6pack guy who took my hands and placed them all over his muscles body so I could feel everything... He was placing his own hand on my shorts while feeling what was hidden inside... This is even better than the show. Lol

No show this night, only guys doing some posing on stage like in this picture from Tawan twitter account. 
In the meantime I had some conversation with the guy I was with. He decided to move on to soi 4 to see if, despite the heavy rain earlier, things were happening there. And I took 6pack guy back to Tarntawan.
2500 for the boy, 500 for the bar. More expensive than the average off fee in the boybars. But I wanted to have a Tawan expierence... And it turned out better than expected.
One day earlier when I also was in Tawan, 6pack guy already told me "everything" is possible, except that he doesn't want to get fucked. He spoke good English so I had no reason to think things went lost in translation. Possibilities from his side and expectations from mine were clear. He had to leave his id card at reception of the hotel.
In my room the muscle worshipping that started in the bar continued. And as promised he kissed, sucked my dick... And even more: he licked my balls and ass. Was very nice to feel his tongue go there... 
After this all came to a (my) climax, 6pack guy gave me a short mini massage. I felt his strong hands over my body and feet. 
After 6pack guy left, hotel reception called me to check everything was oke before they gave his id card back.
To be honest, I didn't expect much from a Tawan guy. I was thinking maximum you could get was touching his muscles and sucking HIS cock. The expierence I had with 6pack guy was so much better than that...!
Let's see what adventures the rest of Thailand will have for me in the next weeks... 

Of course not.  Living in Thailand is not for everyone.  I certainly would not recommend living in Thailand at all unless you know what you're doing and know what you're getting into.  Going to Thailand for holidays is nowhere near enough to make a life-changing decision.  A holiday in Thailand is very different from living in Thailand.

I would recommend living in Thailand for at least 6 months before making a final decision.  And make sure you maintain an "escape route" in case it doesn't work out.
I have no regrets about living in Thailand and I would do the same thing tomorrow.  Despite our complaints and problems I love it here.  My expat farang friends would probably say the same.  After all, there are plenty of complaints and problems no matter where you live.  But we have also seen many who tried to live in Thailand, but ended up leaving when it just didn't work out for them.
In short, don't make a hasty decision that you can't easily get out of.

If I were looking for a relationship a bar boy is the last place I would start in any country for a whole host of reasons.
I have never intended to get involved with any of the bar guys in Bangkok and, when I take a step back, the fact that I am now involved with Bangkok Guy to the extent that I am still surprises me.
As the relationship began in a bar my ability to help him financially is an inevitable part of the relationship. To ask if a bar boy would stay in a relationship without the financial support is, I think, fatuous. On their side, the need for financial support is a baked-in part of the reason they are there.
The more relevant question is whether the relationship can be one of a fair and equal exchange with respect and caring on both sides.
If the falang treats the guy as a sex doll, a trophy, or as bought property, or just generally fails to consider his needs, there will be no long term relationship. If the guy does not like or respect the falang, or if he thinks it is purely short term, then he is likely to view the falang as an ATM to be emptied as quickly as possible, and there will be no long term relationship.
However, if each likes and respects the other, both are transparent about their needs and the exchange of needs seems a fair trade, there is a chance it might work subject to the vicissitudes of all relationships including compatibility with each other’s friends and families and ability to co-locate.  
Again making it plain that I am aware that I do not have a full understanding of the situation, my perception is that if Bangkok Guy and I decided to go for an actual full time relationship the main problems are:
(i)               Ability to co-locate. I do not want to live in Thailand. Bangkok Guy is clear that he does not care where he lives as long as it is with me. That’s nice to hear, but not practical.
(ii)              Bangkok Guy’s responsibility to look after his mother and sister and possible wider family network ties.
It’s the second point where there are possible transparency issues around how much I am viewed as an ATM to be emptied as quickly as possible.
Bangkok Guy completely lacks a poker face. What he is thinking, his state of mind, is on his face, especially if you know him. It has the benefit of making communication easier.
When Bangkok Guy asks me for financial assistance he does so in one of three ways.
(i)               Completely openly and hopefully. This is his expression when he is discussing his own needs. He is approaching me as his friend to fulfill the financial part of my role in the relationship. He has always been very straightforward in these discussions and I enjoy them as I get a clear view into his circumstances and his hopes.
(ii)              Complete panic. This has only happened once during Covid when his part of the family couldn’t make their payment on the time-payment-tractor. It has only happened once and no one could fake the sheer panic on his face, let alone someone without a poker face.
(iii)            Reluctantly with submissive/concerned body language and a concerned face. On these occasions he is asking for help with something to do with the family, not himself.
The first two approaches are consistent with a relationship based on fair trade.
The third concerned/submissive approach is the one where suspicious minds could raise questions.
Does his expression indicate guilt as he knows he is pulling a con, or reluctance as he thinks it might strain our relationship, or frustration & reluctance as he resents having to bear the responsibility of looking after the family?
My guess, guess, is that it is some combination of the last two.
Bangkok Guy takes his responsibilities to his family seriously. He is a stoic and not one to complain. But just occasionally a look or the tone of voice lets it slip that he resents the responsibility and the demands it places on him. It shows in his schizophrenic attitude to his home town. On the one hand he loves its physical beauty and clean air, on the other hand going there to be with family is not his favorite thing.  
I also suspect that his family may view me as a family ATM. “Son, you have great success, bring ATM to family, now empty ATM while the going is good, falang so unreliable need to empty now” while Bangkok Guy does not see it this way.
I think Bangkok Guy wants a long term relationship. Misuse and abuse of the ATM is not consistent with that. My guess is that his family puts him in a difficult position.
I have had two long term relationships, the first of which was with a successful self-made guy from a quite dysfunctional family who, after he became successful, made his life very difficult with their demands for lifestyle uplift. I thought they were a pack of c#nts and would have cut them off, after all they cut him off when they found out he was gay, before he became successful which somehow overcame their distaste for gay, but they were his family and he needed their acceptance (worthless and self-centered though it was).
I suspect Bangkok Guy is in an analogous situation, although (i) his family are simply poor, only mildly dysfunctional and have no objection to him being gay and (ii) he is bound to them through the need to fulfill social norms more than through emotional dependence.
If I am right in this, if, then the risk is that Bangkok Guy decides at some point that his dream of a long term relationship is not going to happen, or that I will not give him enough assistance to start his own business and become independent, in which case he is exposed to a return to a low-and-unreliable market income and a hand-to-mouth existence, in which case he may as well empty the ATM while he can.  
Bangkok Guy and I need to maintain faith in each other. Without trust, there is nothing.
 

I tried to provide insights on a number of occasions on different threads but obviously my comments fell on stony ground. And I'm not going to repeat myself.
I know three LTR couples, two of them British/Thai, one of them a US citizen. They are similar- 60+ falang/late thirties or early forties Thais. Both parties seems happy to me.
If you keep your eyes open, you'll see such couples in the restaurants and malls of Pattaya. You won't confuse them with falangs with offed guys.
It works for some of us. Perhaps it shouldn't, but it does. Don't be dismissive of other peoples' experience and other peoples' lives. And don't confuse sex and love. I've enjoyed both in the last twenty-five years visiting Pattaya. and so I don't.

I have been reading this thread with interest and thought I would share my experience with Bangkok Guy.
I will preface this by admitting that as I do not speak Thai and am not on the spot, I may well completely misunderstand the situation and wake up one day to find it is indeed all a con.
However, from my experience of Bangkok Guy, I don’t think it is.
Bangkok Guy has three different sets of financial needs:
·        His own living expenses – rent, food, transport etc
·        Obligations from before the time that we met. These are wider family obligations such as the time-payment-tractor.
·        The obligation to look after his mother and sister, if they need help.
The allowance I give him covers the first category (based on a comprehensive spreadsheet).
I decided to cover his living expenses after I came to understand how unreliable and volatile his income from the market stalls is.
With his living expenses covered, as long as he is working, he should be set, yes?
Well, no. Not all the time and especially not if there are emergencies.
Partly it goes back to the unreliability of the market stall income. Durian was good business, then prices fell. Then in the wet season the markets are not open every day, so he can’t work every day. If he can’t work for a prolonged period he gets stressed, even though his rent and other expenses are covered by the allowance, as experience tells him that at some point he will need to help out his mother and sister.
He has been stressed about money for several months but, while telling me he has ‘pobpems’, he has been reluctant to ask for my help, even after I ask directly what the problem is and ‘How can I help?’
Finally, after several months, very awkwardly and embarrassed, he let me in on the problem. His sister had been in a traffic accident. It was her fault. Fortunately she is recovering ok. Unfortunately she is liable for the hospital bills and the damages. As he always does where money is concerned, he sent documentation. Pics of his sister in hospital and her ruined motor scooter. As the man in the family, he is expected to sort it out, and without my help he can’t.
He is very stressed about this. It appears to me that most of his stress comes from having to ask me for help. He is clear that this is his problem, not my problem. I do not have to become involved.
On the one hand, he could be a fantastic psychologist, taking the burden on himself knowing that I will respect that and offer to help. Top of the Class manipulation!
What I think is more likely the case is that he really does not want to drag me into his family’s problems as he thinks it will alienate me, damage our relationship and he will loose me.  
He looks sick as he names the sum he needs. He still looks stressed after I agree to send the money. He thanks me, but he is stressed. He needs to see that I am truly ok with this, that it hasn’t damaged the relationship.
I switch topics to our next trip, to Tokyo and Koh Samui. Ask him if he wants to take the Shinkansen to Kyoto. Show him the black cashmere jumper I bought for him so he will be warm in the Tokyo winter. He still does not look happy.  “You need relax, work too much” Ah! A possible insight. He always thinks I work too much and need to relax more in order to live longer. Now he has put an additional burden on me.
“In Tokyo and Koh Samui, I follow you” “You follow me? Sleep all day and all night?” He is looking more cheerful.
“Not all day, I get bored, but yes we sleep. I look after you, you look after me”.
Now he is smiling. I follow him. He is contributing something. We are still ok.
 

Part 4: A night in Soi 4 - disappointed in Jupiter 
Disclaimer: if you're a big Jupiter fan, you probabaly don't wanna read this post as for sure you will disagree with almost everything I have to say. But... We all have different taste and opinions... 
Saturday night in soi 4, around 10:30pm
Saturday night, time to hit the bars. Tonight I choose soi 4 to have a look around. Just before 10:30pm I arrived at Jupiter. Entrance fee (including 1 drink) was 400baht. It was crowded. All good seats in the house were taken and I was put on the far right hand side next to the stage. Next to the stairs from where the boys go down during their parades. 
There was a nice atmosphere because of the live singer. He was singing an English song that I didn't know but big part of the Asian audience was singing along. Probably some famous K-pop song. 
60+ guest, around 15 women. And during the show even more guests arrived. Till it was completely fully packed. I guess 95% of the guests were Asian, and I wouldn't be surprised if I was the oldest customer in house that night.  
The boy model parade began with the boys in tight black underwear. Wow. So many muscles, so many tattoos. For me it was like being in a candy shop. So many tasty stuff I wanna try. But somehow it didn't feel right. It was very obvious that the girls in the audience got almost all the attention (looks and winks) from the boys on stage. 

Jupiter puts clips of their boy parades on their Facebook page
Than the show started. Some acts I really had no idea what I was actually looking at. Other acts were oke. But what was remarkable that I didn't see any gay act. All acts where ladyboys interacting with the boys. As they were straight couple in love or seducing each other. And when a member of the audience was invited for a lapdance, they choose a girl to come on stage. 
More entertaining than most of the show was the reaction of an Asian girl next to me: shouting like she never did see any big cock before. Poor girl. Haha. 
It's probably not populair to say this, but: I couldn't figure out why this bar is in a gay street. Yes, they have very goodlooking guys. And as a gay you can take one home. But you probabaly end up paying too much money for what you get as I can't imagine these straight "gay for pay" guys will be any good. Some of the models ego is bigger than their cock I have the impression. But maybe somebody on this forum is having a great expierence with offing a Jupiter boy (or models as they call it there)? 

One other strange thing was that at the second boy parade they were back in jeans. That's a strange build up: to have them walk in sexy underwear first and jeans later...
As I wanted to see if there would still come any gayness in the show I stayed till around 11:45pm. But I couldn't be bothered anymore by that time and left the building. To be in time for the midnight show at Banana Room. 
Also this place was busy, full of customers. Als here there were more woman inside than I did see in the bars in Patpong 2. Looks like soi 4 is more and more a place where straight girls on holiday come to have a crazy night out and that the bars in Patpong 2 still have mainly a male audience. You guys feel the same from your expierence? 

Banana Room had the cheapest price what I've seen till now: 350 for the first drink. Not that many boys (left): only about 12 on stage. The show itself had a bit too many ladyboys lipsyncing to slow diva songs to my taste. But at least there was some boy-on-boy action happening here. Some deep sucking on a big cock. 
Side note; in the big cock shows and other acts where a hard-on is required, the boys are always wearing a condom. Why? If it is to bind off the penis to keep it hard, there are other (more beautiful) options, right? Use a cockring for example. 
But back to the show in Banana Room. From the 12 boys still available in the last hour the bar is (officially...) open, I found 3 that I could off. But actually in the meantime I had other plans made up. During the time I spent in Jupiter I chatted with a nice boy in Grindr. He is working in a massage place and we agreed to meet up at 1pm after he was free from work. That's how the night had a happy ending for me after all...