Moses Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 1 hour ago, alvnv said: Russia is a horrible neighbor! Don't tease bear and you will not have problems. Mongolia has zero tensions on 3500 km of the border for centuries. There are no fences or barbed wires The same with Norway: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unicorn Posted November 20, 2023 Members Share Posted November 20, 2023 14 hours ago, PeterRS said: PeterRS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unicorn Posted November 20, 2023 Members Share Posted November 20, 2023 4 hours ago, Moses said: ... The decision is made in Washington... Actually, in this instance I agree with most of what @Moses has said on this subject (yes, they shouldn't sell rail tickets unless there is a visa, but no, it's not the Russian border guards' duty to enforce Finnish law unless they've agreed to do so), but this statement seems to be a preposterous speculation, unless you have real evidence to back it up. And, no--an unsubstantiated statement by the Russian press is not evidence. KeepItReal and vinapu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterRS Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 5 hours ago, unicorn said: Actually, in this instance I agree with most of what @Moses has said on this subject (yes, they shouldn't sell rail tickets unless there is a visa, but no, it's not the Russian border guards' duty to enforce Finnish law unless they've agreed to do so), but this statement seems to be a preposterous speculation, unless you have real evidence to back it up. And, no--an unsubstantiated statement by the Russian press is not evidence. Unfortunately most of the links Moses uses to back up his statements - if he bothers to provide any sources at all - have been in Japanese or in Russian. And in those cases, the links had nothing whatever to do with the thread topic. The one in English from a Finland site here failed to back up his comments! unicorn and Marc in Calif 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unicorn Posted November 21, 2023 Members Share Posted November 21, 2023 34 minutes ago, PeterRS said: Unfortunately most of the links Moses uses to back up his statements - if he bothers to provide any sources at all - have been in Japanese or in Russian. And in those cases, the links had nothing whatever to do with the thread topic. The one in English from a Finland site here failed to back up his comments! alvnv, Mavica, Marc in Calif and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvnv Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 11 hours ago, Moses said: Don't tease bear and you will not have problems. Mongolia has zero tensions on 3500 km of the border for centuries. There are no fences or barbed wires The same with Norway: The bear will end up in a Chinese circus due to miscalculations of the little evil man in charge of Russia. Also, being a horrible neighbor is not only about the border. Here’s a bit of reading on Mongolia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalinist_repressions_in_Mongolia And now about the border with Norway: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway–Russia_border reader 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unicorn Posted November 21, 2023 Members Share Posted November 21, 2023 3 hours ago, alvnv said: ... And now about the border with Norway: ... Yes, that link does confirm that Russia does, indeed, have a fence all along its border with Norway: "...On the Norwegian side there are no physical hindrances on the border and it is permitted to move all the way to the border itself, except for Storskog, Skafferhullet, and some hydro power stations, where there are fences where roads reach the border. On the Russian side there is a fence located anywhere between 0 and 5 kilometers (0 and 3 mi) from the border. Although not electrified, it has sensors which will notify the border controllers if touched. The fence stretches the entire distance between the Barents Sea and the Gulf of Finland and was built during the Cold War to keep in the population of the Soviet Union. It remains the only barbed-wire fence along a Russian border in Europe...". The only reason @Moses's photo doesn't show a fence is that Russia's fence is often well inside its territory. It reminds me of the old Russian saying: @Moses большой лжец. alvnv and Marc in Calif 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moses Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 This Ru-Fi "border story" is totally political propaganda buzz. FRONTEX reports 331 600 cases on EU borders at last 10 months. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/frontex-331600-irregular-border-crossings-recorded-in-first-10-months-of-2023-highest-since-2015/ From 331 600 cases less than 4000 (about 1% ) happens on "Eastern Land Border" - i.e. on 2500 km of border of Russia with Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Poland all together. Finish border hysteria is just part of political propaganda against Russia. Balkan border: Finland border: Department_Of_Agriculture and Marc in Calif 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forky123 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Migrant propaganda is being used across the west at the moment to generate hate against migrants and energise their voters. While there are countries that have a very real problem, it isn't generally the ones who are simply using it to promote their far right agendas. thaiophilus, reader and alvnv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unicorn Posted November 21, 2023 Members Share Posted November 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Moses said: This Ru-Fi "border story" is totally political propaganda buzz. ... Finish border hysteria is just part of political propaganda against Russia. Well, I do agree that we should end border hysteria. I also agree that Finland could be more generous towards refugees given the much larger burden accepted by other EU nations (as well as the US). I suspect that anyone wiling and able to make such an arduous trek from Syria or wherever to Finland would probably end up being a highly productive member of Finnish society. I also have a suspicion that it's probably in its interest to accept refugee immigrants in order to sustain its population. Finnish citizens have the right to live and work in any EU country, and I imagine that a substantial proportion are more than eager to move to EU countries with less hostile climates. As a physician, if I were a Finnish citizen, I'd try to find a job in a more pleasant EU country such as Malta--or even France, Spain, or Italy. Marc in Calif and Department_Of_Agriculture 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moses Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 Well, today Finland opened border crossing points after less than month of propagandistic political hysteria. Suddenly they found what they can't live with closed border. Traffic from Finland to Russia is 2.5 times higher than traffic from Russia to Finland. Clowns. alvnv, forky123 and PeterRS 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterRS Posted December 14, 2023 Author Share Posted December 14, 2023 57 minutes ago, Moses said: Well, today Finland opened border crossing points after less than month of propagandistic political hysteria. Inaccurate - as usual. Having closed all eight border crossings last month, Finland today is re-opening just two of them and only until January 14. This came with a warning that the crossings could be completely closed again at any time in the future. So much for "propagandistic political hysteria"! unicorn, Marc in Calif and Ruthrieston 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterRS Posted December 14, 2023 Author Share Posted December 14, 2023 Since we're on a bit of tangent, Monty Python's songs were always fun. China is a bit far from Finland but as close as can be to Russia and so this may not be inappropriate. Their "I Like Chinese" song is quite amusing. Political correctness had resulted in some of the words being changed when they repeated the song in their O2 Arena concert in London some years ago (although what the Elvis figure is doing at the end beats me!) Their Mandarin near the end is pretty good. Here are the two versions with the later version first. Marc in Calif 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithambrose Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 2 hours ago, PeterRS said: Since we're on a bit of tangent, Monty Python's songs were always fun. China is a bit far from Finland but as close as can be to Russia and so this may not be inappropriate. Their "I Like Chinese" song is quite amusing. Political correctness had resulted in some of the words being changed when they repeated the song in their O2 Arena concert in London some years ago (although what the Elvis figure is doing at the end beats me!) Their Mandarin near the end is pretty good. Here are the two versions with the later version first. Nostalgia is a wonderful thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc in Calif Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 14 hours ago, PeterRS said: Since we're on a bit of tangent, Monty Python's songs were always fun. Aren't tangents fun?! 🥳 PeterRS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moses Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 Today Finland closed border again, despite in yesterday announce were declared "border is opened till January 14". At past 24 hours traffic from/to Finland was 3:1. Clowns. Mavica, Marc in Calif and alvnv 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members unicorn Posted December 15, 2023 Members Share Posted December 15, 2023 13 hours ago, Moses said: Today Finland closed border again, despite in yesterday announce were declared "border is opened till January 14". At past 24 hours traffic from/to Finland was 3:1. Clowns. I feel a song coming on... alvnv and reader 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reader Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 15 hours ago, Moses said: Today Finland closed border again, despite in yesterday announce were declared "border is opened till January 14". At past 24 hours traffic from/to Finland was 3:1. Clowns. Thanks to Putin's attack on Ukraine, those "clowns" now have the 30 other members of NATO committed to their defense. From NATO website Finnish cooperation with NATO was historically based on its policy of military non-alignment and a firm national political consensus. This changed in 2022, following Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. alvnv and Mavica 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterRS Posted December 16, 2023 Author Share Posted December 16, 2023 On 12/14/2023 at 4:19 PM, Moses said: Well, today Finland opened border crossing points after less than month of propagandistic political hysteria. Suddenly they found what they can't live with closed border. Traffic from Finland to Russia is 2.5 times higher than traffic from Russia to Finland. Clowns. 18 hours ago, Moses said: Today Finland closed border again, despite in yesterday announce were declared "border is opened till January 14". Clowns. So your reasoning got it all wrong again! Why should anyone be surprised? Who is the clown here, I wonder? Ruthrieston 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moses Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 7 hours ago, PeterRS said: Who is the clown here, I wonder? Finland for sure. This border hysteria has political propagandistic roots. Finland closed border yesterday because of "refugee crisis". Do you want to know how much refugees were yesterday in total on the border Russia-Finland? 60. Yes, sixty. For comparation on the border Mexico-US refugee traffic is 10000-12000 daily. The most extensive refugee traffic on Ru-Fi borders was 800 monthly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvnv Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 34 minutes ago, Moses said: Finland for sure. This border hysteria has political propagandistic roots. Finland closed border yesterday because of "refugee crisis". Do you want to know how much refugees were yesterday in total on the border Russia-Finland? 60. Yes, sixty. For comparation on the border Mexico-US refugee traffic is 10000-12000 daily. The most extensive refugee traffic on Ru-Fi borders was 800 monthly. 800:30=26.7 Ergo, if the number was more than 2.2 times that of the “most extensive” (whatever this could mean), it would justify closing the border. The only thing valid comparing MX-US to RU-FI is the development status of the country people are trying to flee. Although I’d rather be “stuck” in MX than in RU, even though my Russian is much better than my Spanish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moses Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, alvnv said: Ergo, if the number was more than 2.2 times that Only because prev. 2 weeks border was closed, so it is accumulated in 2 weeks number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moses Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, alvnv said: The only thing valid comparing MX-US to RU-FI is the development status of the country people are trying to flee. Syrians, Algerians, Afghani don't "flee" Russia, they use it as transit country and arriving to Russia legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterRS Posted December 16, 2023 Author Share Posted December 16, 2023 Ruthrieston 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moses Posted December 16, 2023 Share Posted December 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, PeterRS said: Well, it is progress. It is better than "please ban him for 3 months" because he brings here disturbing facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
