[Is the gay scene dying off ?]

7 hours ago, PeterRS said:

We saw the first major attempts to clamp down on the sex trade in the early 2000s with Thaksin's social order campaigns. SInce then the apps have been doing a good job at weaning some sex tourists away from the bars.

Yeah, they tried but even then they weren't able to shut it down. Why? Because there was too much money to be made by that very same elite. so, I don't government intervention as the main factor in the change of BKK's gay scene. It's not like Thai society has become more conservative, actually the opposite is true, especially among young people. Plus, that kind of crackdown would have a much higher global resonance today that they had more than 20 years ago. It would definitely scare lots of people.

I still think that  actually "market" forces will  drive the change. Even among the gay  tourist crowd, westerners represent a much smaller percentage compared to 30-40 years ago. It's the Asian, primarily the Chinese, that make up the majority. so, it's only logical that a lot of venues will cater to their taste and way of doing things.

[Is the gay scene dying off ?]

7 hours ago, reader said:

You fail to acknowledge that they will be replaced by those who are now a decade younger. That’s how it’s been from day one. The faces will change but the beat goes on. The need for sex and affection is not some passing fad.

They say prostitution is the oldest profession right? so, it was the first one and it's going to be the last one in this world. It's definitely not going away anytime soon. 

Actually, a higher number and percentage of younger people are visiting Thailand and the countries around, compared to when most of you guys where in the 20s and 30s.

Lots of them are enjoying the free company of Asian guys they find online or through bars. Now imagine the same people going back to the same places in 25-30 years. I'm sure that when they don't get the same rate of success, lots of them wouldn't mind splurging a little bit to relive those happy moments from their youth with an Asian twink body next to them.

That said I'm sure most of that transactional activity will take place online. I'm in my mid 30s, and pretty much through all my life I always found most of sex online, first through internet sites and then came the apps. I imagine it's even more common for people younger than me. However, as online shopping didn't fully eliminate brick and mortar stores, so I think go go boys aren't fully going away. There is some advantage in actually seeing and touching your "merchandise" in person, than just ordering it online.

They might change in form and they way they operate but hasn't that always happened? Were the go-go bars in BKK and Pattaya in the 80s and 90s same as the ones we see today?

[East Europeans in Asia]

On 11/27/2023 at 8:39 PM, davet said:

I also posted this to the Asia forum, but what's the story with big blond hunky E. European guys posting ads in Asia? I've been watching one big Ukrainian guy who has been stuck in Bangkok for a year. I know of another Czech who moved to S.E. Asia. And when I was last in Bangkok, I saw several very porn-looking Euro boys (one of whom I could swear was Carlo Festa, but he would have been too old) walking through the night market. The Lady-Boys made a hilarious show bowing and kowtowing before these nordic gods.

I don't think these guys are on the usual global circuit. Some seem to have been based in Asia for an extended term. I suppose the cost of living is cheaper for these guys and the client base is presumably appreciative of their "exotic" attributes (turnabout for fair play).

Is there a special door into this scene, other than the usual pimp sites?

Well even before the war started, the phenomena of young Russians/Belarusians/ Ukrainians moving into southeast Asia was quite diffuse. The three main destinations were and I think still are Thailand (especially Pattaya), Vietnam (especially Nha Trang) and Indonesia( mostly Bali)Some of them actually moved over there legally and acquire job permits (the easiest is in Vietnam where lots of them end up being, believe it or not, English teachers). Some, just overstay their tourist period. I guess the police doesn't bother them as much as immigrants from the other SE Asian countries. It's true that lots of them, both females and males, end up engaging in prostitution and actually some of them resort to plain begging on the streets.

I think actually the war and the pandemic pushed the more educated and professional kind of people to move to SE Asia. The main factor as you said are weather and the low cost of living. I was in KL last month and was surprised to hear so many people speaking Russian around the city. Even the Airbnb tower I stayed at, was full of them.

Now if you're looking to find some of them engaging in transactional sex while visiting Asia, I would say Hornet is the place to start, as that is actually the most used app in Russian speaking countries, so even when they move, they still use that. Another alternative, if you really want to find them, is asking a local mb if they know any of them. they usually do, especially in those cities I mentioned above.

[Gay Thai Chat Rooms and Asian Travel Web Sites]

On 11/11/2023 at 10:30 PM, PeterRS said:

Worst in both are its hotel recomendations. The top two in Bangkok are the W Hotel and the Mandarin-Oriental! Soon after come the So-Sofitel, the Banyan Tree, Le Meridien, the Peninsula and the St. Regis. To be fair, it also lists the Tarntawan. But why such a cluster of just expensive hotels? I

In Taipei it places the Chinese-styled Grand Hotel at the top of its list. Why, considering it is so far from the gay areas and not close to public transport? Beats me. Advertising cash, I expect! 

Trying to bring this discussion back on-topic, instead of arguing back and forth if Taipei is a worthy destination (which can be done in its own thread) I think travel gay sites, in their hotel section, should mention clearly (though unfortunately almost none does) what's the general guest policy for hotels in a given city/country and mention if there is any hotel that goes against it.

A paragraph should also mention if the same applies to Airbnbs and if there is any trade-off with going with the latter like ex: security (though this might be more relevant in South American than Asia).

Instead, they just come with a list of places, slammed with overused "gay-friendly" label, which at best sounds limited and at worst just plain paid advertisement. If you really want to mention names at least provide some actual and concrete info relevant to gays, ex: Gryand Hyatt Bangkok is a popular place for homepas during the White party nights.

Info about the high and low season in a particular place will also be very useful, but unfortunately in none of the gay travel sites I consult before visiting a new place, you can find this type of information. So, usually the hotel section is the one even I completely skip or just give it a very quick glance.

On the positive side, I guess that's what makes sites like this portal useful and have people come to it often.

[Any feedback for Krubb and Chakran saunas ?]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:35 AM, eurasian said:

Hi everybody ,

Most of the reports here are about the gogo bars and massage places but very little info about saunas . Will be happy to hear your feedback particularly for Krubb and Chakran saunas .

Thanks .  

Only been to Krubb once. Their facilities are great and the crowd is pretty hot. A bit of a sticky-rice vibe but you can still have lots of fun. It was during once of their group action nights. Felt the event was a bit disorganized and the room where it was held was too small and dark. They had some performers in there, same as R3 does. It was in August of 2022 though, so 90-95% had a mask on, which was really a turn-off.

Never been to Chakrain , even though I tell myself I will go each time i'm in BKK. Maybe it's because of its reputation being too sticky-rice or the location or maybe I just go to the others once I know I will have fun. Didn't know they had special events. Would definitely go, especially on a foam party. 

Talking about foam parties I definitely recommend the ones at Mania but especially at the ones at R3 sauna. went there last month with a Thai twink who wanted to some group action in the dark room and who usually goes to Krubb and we both had a blast. The performers were hot and the crowd was quite big and wild.  R3 is bigger than mania so the foam tends to be also better. Met even this guy who used to be a performer over there before Covid. Asked him if he was still working there but he said he said no and  was there just to see his friends and have fun. At the end of the party, he came over me and asked if I had cummed. I had but said. Asked me and then said he can take care of it. we went to a cabin and had a pretty good ride. So I definitely recommend R3. check their Twitter account to see when the next party is.

Going to be in BKK for most of December, so hoping to finally go to Chakran, give Krubb and enjoy the foam parties in Mania and R3. It's gonna be good especially on NYE/White party weekend. Last year they had foam parties on both saunas everyday from Friday-Sunday.

[Gay Thai Chat Rooms and Asian Travel Web Sites]

14 hours ago, scott456 said:

@hojacat confirmed many things about Taipei night life, both good and bad.  And, he did point out he is a rice queen.

BTW, so far, nobody has disputed the fact that the majority of gays in Taiwan are bottom.  

I wasn't really trying to give my judgment on anything specific about Taipei nightlife but just that it fits perfectly my taste and desires. Evidently it doesn't for you and that's totally fine. I'm in the same boat with some of the places mentioned by you like Bogota and Medellin. Been there, done that. Can't really say I enjoyed them, even though I can speak Spanish and had a good amount of sex while there, so no plans to return to those places.

You gave Taiwan a fair number of chances. I don't think you will get charmed if you go for a 3rd time. Would be better if you just avoid it as it doesn't really suits you for all those reasons you mentioned and I think you're honest when you're saying that they bothered or made the place unappealing to you, even though I don't agree or share them.

Nonetheless, Taipei is going to be remain a great gay destination for most, including lots of people in this forum. Same as will Columbia or Brazil, even though I wouldn't return there even if getting paid to do so.

[Taipei Info/Tips?]

22 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

Sharing this link as it was updated last month and seems to provide interesting information, though our learned members may be able to advise on it's accuracy.

 

https://www.klook.com/en-GB/blog/taipei_gay_bar/

It's a pretty comprehensive and well-summarized list of venues. Quite good for a generic website focused mostly on selling tours. if it had included the saunas the hot springs would have been pretty much complete.

[Gay Thai Chat Rooms and Asian Travel Web Sites]

8 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

Thanks for confirming the fact that Taipei has a vibrant gay nightlife for you! 🥳 🎉

That's for sure. Otherwise, I wouldn't have gone there more than 15 times.

[Gay Thai Chat Rooms and Asian Travel Web Sites]

On 11/13/2023 at 3:54 AM, PeterRS said:

You have definitely got me confused with another poster. Unlike some of my friends, I am not a regular club goer in Taipei and certainly would never have mentioned Candy. I don't even know what it is! I have mentioned the small Commander D which I have been to and is quite close to The Red House. G*Star is much bigger and probably the most famous. I hear that Abrazo, Bacio, Werk and Bush at B1 are among others worth considering. @hojacat wrote a post about Hunt being virtually a club but it seems to have a different dress theme each night. You can find the post earler in this forum.

Best is to chat with some of the guys who go to the various Red House cafes for drinks or dinner. With the rainy season almost over, it will be packed at week-end nights and pretty busy the rest of the week. I go regularly for drinks to Sol Bar and the waiters there speak good English. They will know the latest 'in' places.

Since it seems you don't like Taipei/Taiwan why bother going? Others really like it. Some love it.

Maybe he was referring to a post about Candy Land ( a dance party held monthly in Taipei) that I did posted in another thread. It's a short Youtube video I found of it. Now about the debate regarding gay venues in Taipei: when it comes to bars, dance clubs, drag shows, circuit parties, I have zero or almost zero interest in them, no matter the size or quality so will let others argue about them. Yeah, I have been to most of the bars and clubs in Taipei(Abrazo, G*star, etc) but that's because I have been so many times and can't say no to my local friends when they want to bring me with them.

The only two types of gay venues I really care about in Taipei and every other city I visit are: saunas and cruise/sex clubs. Now, I guess there is general consensus that Soi13 can compete against  the best saunas of any Asian city like BKK (R3, Krubb), HK (Hutong), Tokyo (24 Kaikan), etc in terms of size, venues, quality of guys, action happening, etc.

Also while it is true that cruising clubs like Commander or the Hunt are much smaller and less hardcore than the same kind of venues in other places like The Lab in Berlin, SBN in London, GBU parties in NYC and LA, given that in those places I'm only into 10-15% of the crowd while in Taipei that number goes to 80-85% (yes, a shameless and unrepented rice queen in here) I still find patronizing those venues in Taipei a damn good way of spending my time.

At the end, I guess, different strokes for different folks. Taipei has a good and solid base of admirers which is only getting bigger (witnessed first-hand during pride the enthusiastic reactions to the city of people visiting for the first time).

On a note, is there a proper sex/cruising bar in BKK (not counting go-go bars)?

 

[Hong Kong's International Gay Games A Success]

On 11/11/2023 at 6:46 PM, PeterRS said:

They have to a large extent operated under the gaydar. Yet Asia's first-ever Gay Games - known as the Gay Olympics, the week-long annual event marking inclusion and diversity - will end today with a large closing ceremony. 2,400 athletes along with their friends, families and members of Hong Kong's own LGBTQ community will join hands in celebration of a highly successful week to dance to disco music with 'gay' abandon. 

It was all very different in 2017 when Hong Kong was awarded the Games to join the hosts of previous Games like Paris, Amsterdam and Sydney. There was joy among the gay communities throughout Asia, a joy that in part celebrated Hong Kong's continuing freedoms after its return to mainland China. Then came the massive 2019 protests, the all-encompassing new National Security Law imposed by China making "love China" the flavour not only of the month but all future months and, perhaps even worse for the Gay Games, the closure of Hong Kong with eventually the world's most draconian quarantine regulations as Covid took its toll. As this was going on, a crackdown on LGBTQ activities was underway in China itself. Many felt Hong Kong could never host the Games.

Originally planned for 2022, the Games were pushed back a year. But the worry over China's contol of Hong Kong continued. As a contingency, the Games organisers appointed Guadalajara as a co-host. This inevitably resulted in many participants going to Mexico rather than risk going to Kong Kong. Consequently, the numbers taking part in Hong Kong were diminished. But according to reports, all who went had a ball. 

Few lawmakers in Hong Kong seemed to have a ball, though! Speaking at the opening ceremony last Saturday, just one lawmaker Regina Ip priased the event she claimed "overflowed with passion and a great sense of unity and community."

Odd, though, that even though this event brought thousands of participants, the Games were totlly absent from the city's Tourism body's website. Not even one sentence!  

Even Ms. Ip was called a hypocrite. One of her remarks praised the Hong Kong courts for "numerous judgements" handed down in favour of the LGBTQ community. Activists and lawyers quickly pointed out that Ip's government had opposed each of those judgements, losing in almost every single case.

“Why are they still wasting taxpayers’ money fighting these tooth-and-nail litigations when they’re recycling the same arguments and losing?” said Mark Daly, a human rights lawyer who has worked on a number of the cases.

But the week of the Games was a joyous occasion for many and proof that not everything in Hong Kong is yet joined at the hip to the mainland.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67366059

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/11/gay-games-hong-kong-china-hostility-gay-transgender

Wondered how much the attendance was in concrete numbers and if it can rivaled with Taipei pride.

Among the people I met during Taipei pride only one was planning to go there. Nonetheless, a first for Asia.

[Kaohsiung worth a couple of days?]

On 11/12/2023 at 2:43 AM, Pantherz said:

Planning a trip to Taipei and wondering if it’s worth spending a couple of days first in Kaohsiung? Is it easy to meet young, good looking guys at bars on Thursday and Friday evenings? Or would it be better to just spend more time in Taipei? Thanks!

Personally, spent around 6 days in Kaohsiung this January. Loved the city and its people. even in Taiwan, people from that area have the reputation being overly friendly. 

Stayed at Indigo hotel near Central Park. Modern hotel that offers great vies and a very convenient location. Didn't have a problem meeting 1-2 guys every day and not just for sex. a couple of them took me around the city on their motorbike and at their favorites cafe and dining places. You can check my reviews about Hi-Man sauna in a previous post. It's kinda small but has theme nights. Friday was so-so but Saturday was actually quite decent. A good number of twinks. I still keep in touch with a guy I met in there and he even came to meet me in Taipei last month. Didn't explore much bars or gay clubs as I'm not usually into them.

Should you go or not? Depends on you. Not sure about your age and body type but if you're popular in Taipei, rest assured you will be in Kaohsiung also. If it's your first time in Taiwan, i would just spend more time exploring Taipei and enjoying the pleasures that the gay venues and apps can bring you in that city. However, Kaohsiung is definitely a valid destination that I recommend to all the Taiwan-lovers in this forum.

[Thai Vietjet - The 1st to implement AOT's Biometric Identification System]

Quite a few airlines have implemented facial recognition solutions, when you can go from checking your bags to boarding the plane without having to take a boarding pass out. Emirates and Delta are two that come to my mind right now. At The international terminal at LAX, where I usually fly from, most of the times you board the plane just by having a picture taken.

On 11/4/2023 at 9:40 PM, PeterRS said:

It's also been in use in Taipei when exiting the country since pre covid. For some reason, at Taoyuan airport the whole process works much faster.

Yeah, leaving TPE is usually a quick process. They take a picture of your face and scan two fingerprints at an automated gate. Entering through TPE though is such a pain. The immigration process is extremely slow. I've had to wait between 30-75 minutes during day hours. They should automatize that process, especially for countries that don't require a visa or at least increase the number of immigration agents. Such a shame for an advanced country like Taiwan. Makes BKK looks quite well-run in comparison.

[Italy's Other Leaning Tower]

There is a known belief among the students of the University of Bologna ( the oldest continuing one in the world). Never climb la torre degli Asinelli (the taller one) before an exam, as you will never be able to graduate. For the older crowd though, it's probably not recommended to climb as you might never be making it down. Even being from that region, I only been on top of the tower once, in high school and found it exhausting.

[Taipei Pride 2023!]

[Taipei Pride 2023!]

[Taipei Pride 2023!]

Here are some of the pics I took of the event. will talk more about it when I have more free time.

[Taipei Pride 2023!]

I still can't believe they didn't break the record of 2019. Both me and my Taiwanese friends agreed that they have never seen so many tourists going to the pride:

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/10/29/taiwan-pride-march-east-asia/

[Thailand to bid to host 2028 World Pride]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:14 PM, reader said:

From Thai PBS World 

Thailand will bid to host World Pride in 2028, to reflect the country’s acceptance of and open mindedness regarding LGBT+ issues.

Government spokesperson Chai Wacharonke quoted Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin as saying that his government will fully support the bid and, if the country is selected, he would allocate budget for the hosting of the event. The event would also help boost the economy and tourism, Srettha said.

The 2024 World Pride event will be held in Australia. In 2025 it will be in the US and the Netherlands in 2026.

Srettha was speaking during a meeting in which participants discussed marriage equality and a proposal to allow transgender people to be covered by the country’s universal health coverage.

Chai said a draft marriage equality law will be put on the Cabinet agenda next Tuesday, and Parliament is expected to consider it in early December.

There should, however, be a roadmap for the process, which must include opinions from all sides, he said.

The world pride has been held every other year pretty much in the last 10 years or so. There is none in 2024. It already happened in 2023 in Sydney and it was so much fun. Before that , it was held in Copenhagen in 2021. It's going to be in Washington DC in 2025, though they first assigned it to Kaohsiung, Taiwan. It got stripped because of naming issue. They are going to have one in Amsterdam in 2026, which kinda deviates from the usual cadence. Not sure what's the reason for that. Maybe some special anniversary like it was in NYC in 2019 (50 years of the Stonewall revolt).

Anyway, I guess we all in here are for BKK in 2028. Asia definitely deserves one. Taipei would be probably the best choice, but unfortunately we know why it can't happen.

[Suggestions - Manila and Cebu]

I would also recommend the area around BCG. It's super popular with young people. Some of my Pinoy fwb both in the Philippines and at home  have recommended me to stay there next time. I stayed in Makati last year, at a small hotel. They was never a problem getting guests in. some got registered  at the check-in, some didn't.

I think Malate has ceased being a gay area in the last 10 years. I still remember the go-go bars though on my first trip to Manila in 2009.

The gay venues in Manila are kinda spread out, so you don't have something like Silom. none of my friends recommended saunas in Manila, so I didn't check any out.

[The first gay dating show from Taiwan is auditioning]

Here is the first episode of the show for the one interested in it: 

 

[Other cities with bars comparable to Bangkok patpong area?]

On 10/3/2023 at 9:37 AM, brettt said:

Are there any cities other than Bangkok and Pattaya that have comparable (or even a single) bar like Dream Boy, Fresh Boy, Tawan and the like that are worth visiting? Searching though the other country forums on this site doesn't turn up much results.

Well, Taipei has quite a few clubs that host monthly dance parties with go-go boys, like C.U.M at Pipe Live Music, WERK! at Triangle, G Star or Candy Land at Studio 9. 

Pretty much something like this:https://youtube.com/shorts/LxXmutu0_Ig?feature=share 

Not sure if you meant places where you can actually transact a meeting outside the  club with the go-go boys. I don't think many of them do that in Taipei and for those that do, you are expected to fork out way much more than you do in Thailand.

[Website with Some Good Information About Gay Asia]

2 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I post this purely for information. I had never heard of the website Gayifiers until I was checking the web for some more detail about gay massage in Taipei. It's a London based site and i have no idea where it gets its information. It seems to be new given that several pages have "Coming Soon" against the content. But the information on Taipei massage was good and it includes a few reviews. Bangkok massage information has 5 listed including two I have not heard of before - Taywa Massage and Spa which seems to be staffed mostly by university students, and a second which is no doubt known to some readers, 9-Teen Massage on Silom Soi 8.

The massage section also has information about Singapore, Osaka and Kaohsiung. The site also has more detailed information about Bangkok and Taipei  with Hong Kong, Hanoi, Tokyo and Osaka "coming soon". 

It also provides more general sections on enjoying the Taipei Gay Pride Parade and Songkran. In the Songkran section the only hotels it lists are pricey, but elsewhere there is a list of four top gay budget hotels - Trinity Silom, FuramaXclusive, Siri Sathorn and the Ibis on Sukhumvit Soi 4.  Interesting additional features are "12 Hottest Porn Stars in Asia" and "12 Hottest Porn Stars Around the World". 

https://www.gayifiers.com

Thanks for the website @PeterRS. It has a pretty good summary with all the info you would want to know especially for saunas and clubs (what kind of crowd, any special event and what's the best time to go). There are some small things missing here and there ( like not mentioning that R3 in BKK is mostly famous for it's O-parties) but overall can be very useful.

Reading the descriptions felt more like first-hand notes from a person visiting those venues, so i might be wrong and I know the site is based in London but I think the creator is probably  a Taiwanese guy (the site is also offered in Chinese) and the venues listed there are mostly from his personal experience. If that's the case the only essential thing lacking from those reviews is the degree of "sticky rice" or "potato queen" found in the crowd of each of those places.

Anyway, I'm surprised I haven't heard of XL Club sauna in Taipei. Probably because it's not really close to Ximending. Have to ask my friends and maybe give it a try since I''ll be there for more than a week at the end of this month for the pride parade.

[Your Best Cities with Moneyboys & Where to find them]

50 minutes ago, scott456 said:

There are wealthy Thais who happily pay the European price to enjoy young white meat.

Yeah, I’ve heard the same thing. Almost all of them from Eastern Europe, especially Russia and Ukraine. A Thai friend of mine who is upper-middle class told me last time that he hired two white mb for his birthday.

[Thailand's LGBTQ+ community draws tourists from China looking to be themselves]

22 hours ago, scott456 said:

Again, most Thais spend their whole lives chasing light/white skin.  In Thailand, nobody wants to be dark, not to mention dating dark skinned people. This is the same concept in gay community.  Light color skin is very desirable in Thailand. Darker Thai guys can't get light skinned Thais, so they pursuit Chinese tourists.

As you said the preference for lighter skin is not found just in Thailand, but it’s pretty common all over Southeast Asia, including a good portion of southern China. I think most of the Chinese guy probably are after fair-skin Thais. I’ve known a few darker ones who go with foreigners mostly because the locals look a bit down on them, but they usually go after Westerners, as the success rate is usually much higher than pursuing other Asians.  I think the high number of “ foreign only” profiles you see on gay apps in Thailand has more to do with the high presence of xenophilia among gays in there, which is usually taken to more extremes that in neighboring countries. Most of my fwbs in places like Vietnam, Taiwan, HK, etc don’t mind messing around with both foreigners and locals but in Thailand I only know 1-2 guys that play with other Thai guys, The others straight out say that they don’t like Thais and most of them are tall, fair skin guys who wouldn’t have problems getting other locals. 

[Thailand's LGBTQ+ community draws tourists from China looking to be themselves]

6 hours ago, scott456 said:

The lighter skin color of Chinese are especially welcomed in Thailand.  There is a tremendous bias against dark skin color in Thailand.

I've been quite surprised in my last 2-3 visits to Thailand of how much popular Chinese guys are on gay apps. Not just on Blued but even on Grindr which tend to be more used by Thais looking for Westerners, I see every time profiles with "Looking for Chinese only" on them.

Have to agree though that a large number of Chinese guys coming from big cities from a middle or upper-middle-class background can be quite sexy and attractive. They definitely take care of themselves and their bodies.