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numazu

Bangkok/Pattaya June-July 2016 Trip Report: To Butterfly or not to Butterfly

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... All of them, with no exception, looked very feminine and/or androgynous. And that's a bar for women only, mind you. Weird concept I thought.... but that's Japan...

Maybe it is 'cos Japan is a male domineering society and occasionally women would like to be in control for a change. To fulfill that fantasy, the boys in such bar would have to be twinkish-like & submissive. If it is up to me, I would want the boys to be masculine, muscular & yet submissive at the same time.

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I swear I wanted to finish the day here but it got too long again. I felt that expanding on the Jomtien experience felt needed because there's not a lot of that in the forums that I can see. I found myself cutting a few things, but still ended up with a damn long post. Apologies!

Don't worry and keep typing. interesting read for people like me who don't frequent Jomtien's or as matter of fact any host bars

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I believe the 40K lost story...

on my second last visit one of my farang friends had a Khmer boy to stay overnight and the Khmer boy asked him if he could put his money in his safe before a morlam concert. The boy deposited 26,000B in the safe... his takings from 2 weeks in Pattaya during his university holidays.

 

Numazu:

Love the trip report... wish I was able to write in such an immersive manner... Really appreciate the feeling or almost being there!

 

I am curious - you are still quite young, but I never hear you mention going to discos or clubs (except for the 1 visit to DJ station earlier)

On this current trip your Condo at Centric Sea was only 200M from NAB and 400M from Tumnan Issan... yet you never visited either (so far!) in this report

 

Is there any particular reason why you have never been to either with your BF du jour?

Whilst I love the bars... a night for me is never over until I have brought a boy and a gang to one of Pattaya night not spots!

 

Thank you for the kind words. 

 

I've never been to NAB. Before my June trips, I've gotten photos from Xboy Guy and CB when they have customers take them there, and have been wanting to go ever since. Didn't get a chance this trip because just got to busy but will be eager to go next time I am there. I didn't realize NAB was so close to Centric Sea (looked at it on Google Maps). If I have known during my trip I would've gone at least once. Thanks for the tip.

 

Last April, which was a non-offing trip, I went with the BF and our friends to Fake Club, DJ Station and G.O.D. all in BKK almost every night. Of course we all went to all three nights of the GCircuit Songkran party.  I went to DJ station twice with Myanmar boy as well. So I do like rounding out my night with a visit to those places but on off-heavy trips I seem to have a hard time doing that. Maybe the sex gets in the way.

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interestingly, I saw several such boy host bars in Japan for women only, no men allowed! One I remember in particular in Osaka had a GIANT billboard above the door, with a dozen or two large pictures of the boys apparently available inside. All of them, with no exception, looked very feminine and/or androgynous. And that's a bar for women only, mind you. Weird concept I thought.... but that's Japan.

 

You apologize if and when you ever write a short post, not a long one, OK!!!?!!

 

Maybe it is 'cos Japan is a male domineering society and occasionally women would like to be in control for a change. To fulfill that fantasy, the boys in such bar would have to be twinkish-like & submissive. If it is up to me, I would want the boys to be masculine, muscular & yet submissive at the same time.

 

This makes want to visit Japan ASAP. 

 

 

Don't worry and keep typing. interesting read for people like me who don't frequent Jomtien's or as matter of fact any host bars

 

 

I thought it was needed thus I expanded on a little bit. 

 

Numazu,

 

The first thing you need to understand about Jomtien is that there are no GoGo Bars allowed.

 

 

That makes sense, but does this host bar model exist in Jomtien because it is profitable to exist by itself, or because gogo bar zoning is not allowed here and they do not have a choice? If they could would it be more profitable for them to have gogo bars here? Or is the host bar model good enough?

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"where you can have drinks on a street in full view of everyone, handy for people watching, with the ability of “offing” boys for immediate company now, or more intimate company further into the night."

 

I don't think the Jomtien host bars are a novelty and we don't need to go to Japan to find something similar.  

 

The description quoted above, seems like a description of Banana Bar, Hot Male (downstairs) and Scorpion Bar on Soi Twilight in BKK.  (Although yes famously some of the nearly-jail-bait VN guys at Scorpion are notoriously not "off-able."  I don't hang out at Scorpion Bar so this is just as reported on this board.)  

 

Only slightly further afield there are also host bars in Saphan Kwai.  

 

On another note, Quiche Cafe in Jomtien has very nice comfort food and nice staff too!  Highly recommended for something a bit casual but nice.

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Numazu

 

I can't resist some comments about your last night adventures and perhaps we may even have a little discussion here.

 

 - Nothing wrong with crowding bed with two boys but I believe some rules must be adhered to in order to avoid awkward , it not outright unpleasant situations.

 

If one takes boys from the same bar do not fall into 'you are customer , you are right " BS.

Make sure that one boy approves both an idea of having other boy in the bed and takes primary role in selecting him as well as second boy is happy to go with the first one. In short tell first boy what you want , let him to do negotiations subject to your approval.

 

From your narrative it looks that this was not done, you kind of hoisted  Thai Boy on CB, he went with it on a 'customer first' principle but it did not work and could be even worse, last thing one needs is a scene in the room.

 

Don't expect boys to say 'no' when you decide on something , this is cultural thing to avoid any unnecessary confrontation.

 

On my last trip in Jun I had 4 nights of crowded bed , two of them were actually wholesome boy's  conspiracy idea given to me just to stamp approval , other two followed  prescription given above including crap when my primary boy changed his mind after deal was sealed costing me agreed 1500 tip for rejected boy who probably still things about stupid farang but I feel I did right thing. 

 

Since you wisely noticed that you contributed mightily to TB being drunk you could expect that things will not go as scripted.

 

- Don't get me wrong but in my younger years I was heavy drinker and I grew up in a drinking culture  , for me it is absolutely despicable to sent home person I was drinking with before he  sobered  up.

Mothers of our generation, God let them rest in peace,   in our drinking years always told us ' you get drunk , sleep there and come home when you sober up".

 

Reading that part of  your story got me so upset  I gulped whole can of 7% Holstein German beer in one lift.

I'm not criticizing you, just venting my frustration with way you handled it enforced by 7% of alcohol content in my beer.

 

- As for tipping drunken boy I'd be more generous rationale being  he got drunk with you. I'm not saying he got shortchanged though , after all as professionals they should watch their intake but one doesn't not expect 19 y.o. to be THAT smart or experienced.

 

I wonder what others will have to say in those matters

 

Waiting impatiently for  a next installment

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Numazu,

 

As you discovered there are no rules when liquor and money is involved .  Boys drink to keep Bar Happy and agree to most anything in order to make money. The best way to avoid those type of problems is by having a clear head and making clear what you expect from each boy but only when they have the ability and clear head to understand.  Even then things may not work out and IMHO boys still deserve the minimum tip.  It is the chance you take when you take more then 1 boy from the same Bar and don't have a clear head yourself.

 

Truth is the money is not worth worrying about and I'm sure if you were sober , you would have gone into the safe and given Tboy 1000.  After all it is only $8 difference.

 

Believe me boys have been treated much worse , but even the most experienced have to learn new lessons.

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To be honest, I am little surprised you only gave 100B to your drinking party boys considering the length of time, 2 bottle of whisky,they entertained you. They sacrificed a potential customer while drinking with you. Also the amount of tip you have given 660B to Thai boy you offed. I admit I don't know anything about Pattaya scene and your tipping habit is absolutely none of my business but if someone ask me, I would say I tip 1000B+ to a non-performing boy as there is no malicious intent on his behalf.

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Boy, I opened a can of worms here. I guess being too personal in my report is a double edged sword: I get appreciation for the amount of detail and immersion my ramblings have, but unfortunately I open myself up to criticism with my bad decisions. No worries:

"where you can have drinks on a street in full view of everyone, handy for people watching, with the ability of “offing” boys for immediate company now, or more intimate company further into the night."

 

I don't think the Jomtien host bars are a novelty and we don't need to go to Japan to find something similar.

Good to know! Thanks for the additional info. I'll make sure to check these out. I've hung out at the downstairs Hot Male bar with friends, but did not notice any boys I can have over to talk to. Maybe i wasn't looking hard enough. Still, the Jomtien street spectacle is hard to replicate IMHO. I do sure wish there was more of a guide for these Thai host bars. Maybe there is one already. If anyone knows of one please let me know.

1. Nothing wrong with crowding bed with two boys but I believe some rules must be adhered to in order to avoid awkward

 

2. From your narrative it looks that this was not done, you kind of hoisted Thai Boy on CB, he went with it on a 'customer first' principle but it did not work and could be even worse, last thing one needs is a scene in the room.

 

3. Since you wisely noticed that you contributed mightily to TB being drunk you could expect that things will not go as scripted.

 

As for tipping drunken boy I'd be more generous rationale being he got drunk with you. I'm not saying he got shortchanged though , after all as professionals they should watch their intake but one doesn't not expect 19 y.o. to be THAT smart or experienced.

1. I agree, I avoided crowding in Pattaya, but not so when I get back to BKK. More on that in future installments.

 

2. Yes, this cultural thing to save face is still something I struggle with. Most of the time I don't get in trouble, but CB did have a problem with it but did not cause a scene. He will continue to have problems with my behavior in future installments, but this is more due to our complicated relationship, rather than just a "saving face" problem.

 

3. It is my fault that he was drunk, so yes I should've gave him the full tip anyway. But be patient! I did promise him I would see him the next day, and I do, please read future installments. I always keep my promises. Even if made when drunk.

 

I've had some drunk sex episodes when i was younger. Not fun mostly, and some vomit was involved definitely.

The best way to avoid those type of problems is by having a clear head and making clear what you expect from each boy but only when they have the ability and clear head to understand. Even then things may not work out and IMHO boys still deserve the minimum tip.

We were all stinking drunk yes, so yes judgement is circumspect at this point. As the adult in the room I should've assessed the situation better. It was fun, sure, but it was also my first time. No more second bottles next time. Again, as above, I will see TBoy again and get redemption for the drunk episode.

To be honest, I am little surprised you only gave 100B to your drinking party boys considering the length of time, 2 bottle of whisky,they entertained you. They sacrificed a potential customer while drinking with you. Also the amount of tip you have given 660B to Thai boy you offed. I admit I don't know anything about Pattaya scene and your tipping habit is absolutely none of my business but if someone ask me, I would say I tip 1000B+ to a non-performing boy as there is no malicious intent on his behalf.

I said I cut some details in my experience in the interest of length of the post. Some details cut:

 

1. I made sure I knew asked what the basic ground rules were in the bar and I asked CB about this.

 

2. CB said if I bought a bottle the boys will sit with me. I told CB to tell the boys that if there are customers interested in them they should go to them. I was only interested in him and KHot, later TBoy, so they were the only ones obligated to sit with me. I didn't pick the ones who sat with me, they all just sat down. Maybe CB's doing I don't know.

 

3. It was a slow (Wednesday) night. Some bars did not have any customers at all from what I saw. I confirmed this with the owner of the bar when I commented on this fact. His bar had some, and the boys in my party would leave once in a while to tend to them, including the party of four farangs in the next table who only had beers, but would go back when they were done. Not every boy was on our table the whole time, except for CB, KHot for a while before he left, and KKid who wanted me. TBoy was a late entry, he came in towards the end of the first bottle. Not sure where he was before, but he stayed till we left for the condo. So it was really only KKid who I needed to give more than 100, but I gave 100 to everyone and possibly was unfair only to KKid.

 

4. Again, to spoil the next day's report, I meet with TBoy again for redemption. A promise is a promise.

 

I've been accused of being too generous with my tips before, glad I am a cheapskate this time :).

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Boy, I opened a can of worms here. I guess being too personal in my report is a double edged sword: I get appreciation for the amount of detail and immersion my ramblings have, but unfortunately I open myself up to criticism with my bad decisions.

Don't read Firecat's , Jasper's and mine posts as criticism, rather as an instruction to readers how to avoid certain pitfalls inspired by your entry.

 

One exception - sending boy home drunk, yes , with apologies but I don't like it for reasons explained and I'm glad you met him next day so nothing happened obviously .

 

Whoever told  you you are too generous with your tips, screw him , none of his business. Your pleasure , your money 

 

Waiting impatiently for a next installment 

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For myself, you're life lived reports men more than any uninformed observations. Only you know what advise your guy whispered in your ear, or words spoken in passing that led to the events and fun of the night. I'm sure the guys at the bar were great full for the tip during this low season.

 

Already, there are people here that would love to know the bar you were at to try to recreate that festive event for themself.

 

It's reports like yours that remind me of the spontaneous excitement that thailand bars offer.

 

It's the trip report posters that help to pack the bars and generate income, great or small, to the bars and bar workers alike.

 

I'm sure that once the lights were dimmed at the bar, the chairs stacked, the liquor locked away and the floor was mopped, the workers leaving for the night were glad to have had you at their bar.

 

Keep on posting as always, I feel as if I'm there with you without opening my wallet or having to count the days I have left before flying home.

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are all the boys in the host bar the twinky type? no tawan type or at least muscle type there?

No... As I remember, at sun bar and "?" Bar. There are some very masculine and sexy Cambodian guys there. Many of them are on hornet and grinder appS and are happy to invite you to their bar. But to get to them, you will have to duck and dodge the brave and forward twink guys touting for their bar.

 

Is it worth all the effort? It damn sure is!

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Boy, I opened a can of worms here. I guess being too personal in my report is a double edged sword: I get appreciation for the amount of detail and immersion my ramblings have, but unfortunately I open myself up to criticism with my bad decisions. No worries:

Good to know! Thanks for the additional info. I'll make sure to check these out. I've hung out at the downstairs Hot Male bar with friends, but did not notice any boys I can have over to talk to. Maybe i wasn't looking hard enough. Still, the Jomtien street spectacle is hard to replicate IMHO. I do sure wish there was more of a guide for these Thai host bars. Maybe there is one already. If anyone knows of one please let me know.

1. I agree, I avoided crowding in Pattaya, but not so when I get back to BKK. More on that in future installments.

 

2. Yes, this cultural thing to save face is still something I struggle with. Most of the time I don't get in trouble, but CB did have a problem with it but did not cause a scene. He will continue to have problems with my behavior in future installments, but this is more due to our complicated relationship, rather than just a "saving face" problem.

 

3. It is my fault that he was drunk, so yes I should've gave him the full tip anyway. But be patient! I did promise him I would see him the next day, and I do, please read future installments. I always keep my promises. Even if made when drunk.

 

I've had some drunk sex episodes when i was younger. Not fun mostly, and some vomit was involved definitely.

We were all stinking drunk yes, so yes judgement is circumspect at this point. As the adult in the room I should've assessed the situation better. It was fun, sure, but it was also my first time. No more second bottles next time. Again, as above, I will see TBoy again and get redemption for the drunk episode.

 

I said I cut some details in my experience in the interest of length of the post. Some details cut:

 

1. I made sure I knew asked what the basic ground rules were in the bar and I asked CB about this.

 

2. CB said if I bought a bottle the boys will sit with me. I told CB to tell the boys that if there are customers interested in them they should go to them. I was only interested in him and KHot, later TBoy, so they were the only ones obligated to sit with me. I didn't pick the ones who sat with me, they all just sat down. Maybe CB's doing I don't know.

 

3. It was a slow (Wednesday) night. Some bars did not have any customers at all from what I saw. I confirmed this with the owner of the bar when I commented on this fact. His bar had some, and the boys in my party would leave once in a while to tend to them, including the party of four farangs in the next table who only had beers, but would go back when they were done. Not every boy was on our table the whole time, except for CB, KHot for a while before he left, and KKid who wanted me. TBoy was a late entry, he came in towards the end of the first bottle. Not sure where he was before, but he stayed till we left for the condo. So it was really only KKid who I needed to give more than 100, but I gave 100 to everyone and possibly was unfair only to KKid.

 

4. Again, to spoil the next day's report, I meet with TBoy again for redemption. A promise is a promise.

 

I've been accused of being too generous with my tips before, glad I am a cheapskate this time :).

I think many of us enjoy reading your report and I don't think anyone is trying to be unkind when suggesting your tips were on the frugal side.  I guess these transactions are a grey area.   Of course none of us wants to throw money around in a stupid way, but sometimes considering the relatively small saving, it might be more noble to err on the side of generosity.

 

But I have to weigh in with all of the other voices in saying I'm enjoying what you're sharing.  

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Don't read Firecat's , Jasper's and mine posts as criticism, rather as an instruction to readers how to avoid certain pitfalls inspired by your entry.

 

 

don't call it double edged. The criticism, if it was that, was all constructive and polite, for everyone's educational benefit, including probably your own. That's what friends are for, constructive criticism, right? Nobody dissed you. Keep on writing away :acute:

 

Keep on posting as always, I feel as if I'm there with you without opening my wallet or having to count the days I have left before flying home.

 

I think many of us enjoy reading your report and I don't think anyone is trying to be unkind when suggesting your tips were on the frugal side.  I guess these transactions are a grey area.   Of course none of us wants to throw money around in a stupid way, but sometimes considering the relatively small saving, it might be more noble to err on the side of generosity.

 

But I have to weigh in with all of the other voices in saying I'm enjoying what you're sharing.  

 

 

So there is no mis-understanding, I certainly was not questioning your generosity , but the fact that you may have made different decisions if you had not drank so much.  It is pretty clear to see that you treat the boys generously and with respect.

 

 

Thanks guys! And I appreciate the criticism input :). I agree the the subject of what appropriate tip to give is fairly subjective and depends on the guy/boy/circumstance. I fully share what I give because I feel it is germane to the report. I've based my tip amounts on past reports and advice, so I appreciate if some of you can let me know if I am doing something wrong.

 

I like to err on the side of generous, so if give a lower than acceptable tip to a boy for most of you I need to know.

 

Thanks for the mostly positive feedback so far!

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One exception - sending boy home drunk, yes , with apologies but I don't like it for reasons explained and I'm glad you met him next day so nothing happened obviously .

 

I did want the boy to stay with us, but CB talked to TBoy and made sure he was OK to go. Also TBoy really wanted to leave.

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