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On one side the tourists complain about how boring JC is as there is nothing to do but sit, drink and watch the boys play their mobiles
On the other side the expats complain when there is entertainment in a bar that it is impinging on their rights to sit, drink and watch the boys play play their mobiles.
Who would want to be a bar owner!

On one side the tourists complain about how boring JC is as there is nothing to do but sit, drink and watch the boys play their mobiles
On the other side the expats complain when there is entertainment in a bar that it is impinging on their rights to sit, drink and watch the boys play play their mobiles.
Who would want to be a bar owner!

On one side the tourists complain about how boring JC is as there is nothing to do but sit, drink and watch the boys play their mobiles
On the other side the expats complain when there is entertainment in a bar that it is impinging on their rights to sit, drink and watch the boys play play their mobiles.
Who would want to be a bar owner!

what next, chip sewn in their buttock readable by our smartphone ?
If we want to learn about them why not to buy them a drink and ask those questions while trying to caress them here and there under the table for an additional tip ?

On one side the tourists complain about how boring JC is as there is nothing to do but sit, drink and watch the boys play their mobiles
On the other side the expats complain when there is entertainment in a bar that it is impinging on their rights to sit, drink and watch the boys play play their mobiles.
Who would want to be a bar owner!

I arrived in Zag at 21:50; was told the show starts at 22:30; decided to take a 2nd look at the massage places. Seemed like in the aftrnn: no pdstrians; 4-5 boys sitting in front of each parlor; again none appealing. The boys were less persistently lively than at Jomtien, most didnt bother to get out of their chairs.
I wld rtrn to that soi after midnight, and the next day and night; same same.
Back at Zag, the cabaret show takes place on the street (see pics below); at times cars and motorbikes passing by the prfrmrs. I took a seat at the side near G-Bar. Bad idea. 15 mnts into the show, G started their outside show, volume drowning Zag's. Apparently business relations deteriorated since Emiel's rprt, and so much for the non-competitive ethic we heard about in J. I moved to the other side.
It was a good show, with 5 alternating ladyboys dancing, dressed up glittering, mouths synchronized with the soundtrack. 
A little after 23:00 the show moved inside, and improved. Two things changed.
One, the inside isnt a bar setting but rather a dance club around a stage. Two, a troupe of 7 masculine sexy shirtless boys appeared, dancing professionally in sync btw the singing bits. A lot of energy in the air, with patrons dancing clapping shouting. At intervals, the 7 boys mingled shortly with the crowd. All this lasted till 02:00.
Given the deafening volume, at one point I took a waiter outside to inquire about what was uppermost in my mind: gays or straights? Offable? Apparently he wasnt sure as to their prfrncs, but yes - offable. How much? 10,000(!) split btw bar and boy. That was so ovbviously a lie, which meant that he perceived me as an out-of-his-depth farang...   (-:
Back inside I noticed two farangs who were obviously well aquainted with the place, just as they were leaving. I followed them outside, and one of them was most obliging with info.
Yes, at least 6 of the 7 were gays. Yes, offable. Fees: to the bar 1500; to the boy - negotiable, prbbly 1500-2000.
Seizing the opportunity, I asked him also about something that intrigued me: how cld the bar's business model be sustainble?
There was no enterance/cover charge and beer was 160 b; how cld they afford such a 3 and a half hours extravaganza?
He said that expenses were lower than I thought. For examples: the bar bought the beer for just 60 b; prfmrs paid for their own glittering costumes; staff relied mainly on tips; etc. Even though, it seems to me quite a feat if only for maintenance and utilities, not to mention actually making money....
Anyway, back to the boys. Given the noise level, it was impossible to really engage anyone as they huddled close to the ear of one patron or another. All I wanted was to get a wtsp/line nmbr. However, I m not at my best in the wee small hours, so I let it drop.
Nvrtheless, I had a great time, the format being so dfrnt from Pattaya, and the boys - much more appealing.
 
The next night, per Emiel's inspiration, I went to G bar. It's much smaller; the cabaret - good but less so than Zag's; max 20 patrons cmprd to at least 80. Again there was a 15 mnts volume overlap. M not sorry I went there, both to show support as Emiel had suggested,and bcs of a very talented ladyboy (actually ladyman by his appearance) mimicking Japanese song acts.
After the show ended, I joined the inside-party at Zag. Again srprsd there was no cover charge or even a mndtry 1st drink, I donated 300 b. 
 
In both bars I didnt see any staff sitting with patrons, or appealing to me. I m glad the next day a masseur called Adam from Blue Dolphin solicited me on grndr. Gave me the best erotic body massage I rmmbr, for 1500 b.

John and Pikky from cupidol have opened Pikky bar. It is a beer bar (not Gogo) in between Copa and serene and has many ex cupidol and Toyboys boys

John and Pikky from cupidol have opened Pikky bar. It is a beer bar (not Gogo) in between Copa and serene and has many ex cupidol and Toyboys boys

You right, bars are for everybody who is paying to get in. 
My comment was not about restricting anybody,s, including Russian gays, access to bars. It was about sympathy another member voiced to their plight. Unlike you I speak and read Russian ( and sing in originaln Russian songs when walking drunk from Sabaidee to Raya which is recorded in this forum already) and what I hear from their circles is not always what I like.
War is not "current thing", war is destruction, suffering and death. Those guys know it very well and it, s why thay likely escaped to be drawn in mayhem some of their kin are shamesly supporting. 
 
 

Yet another relaunch of Winner Boys 1st November which I hope will prove a more enduring success. In September the bar was ready inside but the few boys stilling outside again - very disappointing. Usual 'chicken/egg' problem. No boys so no customers: no customers so no boys.
January before I am back again. I just hope that this time it will work better as I believe some boys will be on salaries/retainers this time?

I've had a look through my collection of ancient guides and have unearthed these maps from 1994-1997 (those are the publication dates, so they may already have been obsolete by then.
Apologies for the unclear text on some - it's difficult to scan pages that won't lie flat.
In that little alley the 1994 map has Khun Bar, Golden Cock, Super A, Lucky S, Super Lex Matsuda and Mama Sun (which was karaoke bar)
 1994 (Thai Scene/Notcutt),
1995 (The Men of Thailand 5/Allyn)
 
1996 (TMOT6)

1997 (Thai Scene)

1999 (TMOT7)

we need to check listing on Bangkok Stock Exchange perhaps 

For the first-time visitor I'd still recommend using a taxi. The train journey requires you to buy tickets, find your way on foot between stations and then from station to hotel, with luggage, in the heat, in a non-English-speaking environment with a weird alphabet, after a long flight, in the wrong time zone...
At some point culture shock is likely to strike. The "old hands" posting otherwise good advice here may have forgotten what that was like 🙃.

Doesn't look particularly fancy in the day time. But very brightly lit at night!
The old entrance to lucky boys is also still operating 

Doesn't look particularly fancy in the day time. But very brightly lit at night!
The old entrance to lucky boys is also still operating 

Doesn't look particularly fancy in the day time. But very brightly lit at night!
The old entrance to lucky boys is also still operating 

Doesn't look particularly fancy in the day time. But very brightly lit at night!
The old entrance to lucky boys is also still operating 

Doesn't look particularly fancy in the day time. But very brightly lit at night!
The old entrance to lucky boys is also still operating 

They were open in the new premises last night (Saturday)
There is a fancy new main entrance on the side street that runs between patpong soi 1 and 2

Doesn't look particularly fancy in the day time. But very brightly lit at night!
The old entrance to lucky boys is also still operating 

They were open in the new premises last night (Saturday)
There is a fancy new main entrance on the side street that runs between patpong soi 1 and 2

I might know how you feel. Maybe. But my similar story is about someone I had known for almost a decade.
It was January 2011 when I met perhaps the cutest guy I had ever laid eyes on. I was walking through Sunee when he noticed me first and said, "Hi." I immediately shifted my gaze to see who belonged to that arrestingly cute voice and inhaled the most addicting smile you could possibly imagine. He was young, 21, slight of build and with the androgynous good looks of a Korean boy band member. Of course I sat down. He wasn't only a charmer but an intoxicating conversationalist as well. He said he learned English at the Catholic school he attended while growing up. Before we left the bar, after he agreed to come back to my hotel, he stopped me and said he had to warn me. He didn't have six-pack abs. I felt so sorry for him, imagining such a comment could only come from someone who went to a customer's hotel room and got at least halfway undressed only to be sent away for lacking a perfectly chiseled torso. How painful that must have been. So I lifted up my shirt and said, "Never mind. Neither do I."
At my hotel, I asked him if he wanted to sit out on the balcony and have a beer. I figured his answer would be no, that as soon as he could he would want to take his earnings to NAB or wherever else 21-year-olds and their friends hung out to enjoy their youth. But he replied, "Why not?"
So I got to enjoy his company for a good hour more before we headed inside to shower and then to bed.
But we didn't stay on the bed for long. He had that slight build -- and it turned out a beautiful body that a six-pack might have actually marred. We were in the missionary position when I decided to take advantage of his 49 kilograms, maneuver him to the edge of the bed, plant my feet on the floor, and pick him up.
It's easy to get some really powerful thrusts in this position, and his moans sounded like he might have been in pain. I stopped and asked if he was OK. He said, "Better than OK. I love it." When I continued, his moans started up again, his eyes rolled back into his head and I realized I wasn't the only one intoxicated with my partner that night.
Eventually it was time for him to leave and as he was sliding out the door he looked back and said, "Come see me next time you're in Thailand."
I was floored. I thought we had made a real connection and that he would ask me for my contact details. I can't describe to you the hurt and disappointment I felt when he essentially said, "So long."
But I was in Pattaya again some 11 months later. Of course I went looking for ... let's call him Dave. I found him working at another bar. Or should I say he found me. "Hey, Biggus," I heard an arrestingly cute voice call out. I immediately knew it was him. I told him how hurt I was when he left last time not asking for my contact details and essentially saying, "Have a nice life." He said he didn't ask for fear of being rejected.
We went on to have a lot of fun over the years. He called me once and insisted I come out for Songkran. I told him I had heard Songkran was miserable for foreigners, that we were always being targeted with ice water even if we were on our way to work. He said, "Don't be a baby. I'll protect you."
I did go to Thailand that April, for two weeks, and to this day they remain the greatest two weeks of my life. I still use a picture from that vacation as my smartphone wallpaper to remind me that I once had a perfect day. We spent a few more Songkrans together. We'd stay up all night at the SK party -- a massive electronic dance music event that must have attracted 10,000 of the hottest young Asian men on the planet -- then spend all day water-gun fighting along Silom. After several days of full-on hedonism, we would move to Pattaya. There we would spend several days redefining hedonism. For New Year's we would go to the White Party. He met me once for a long weekend in Seoul. The last Songkran I saw him at, though, something was different. He was on edge, like he was about to lose his temper, like he was using all his energy to hold it in. He insisted we leave the SK party almost as soon as we got there and go to Silom. I had spent hundreds of dollars on tickets for Dave, his best friend and myself.
Never mind. When our taxi let us out on Silom, I started heading to Soi 2, thinking we were going to DJ Station, but Dave said no, we were going to Soi 4. I didn't understand. There was nothing happening this late on Soi 4, and just sitting down drinking was never how we spent our time together, at least not after that first night. His best friend looked at me apprehensively, then looked at Dave and said, "That's bad." He left. I followed Dave into Soi 4. We sat down and ordered drinks. A few minutes after the drinks arrived someone who left as soon as he popped up handed Dave something and we left. On our way out the soi, one of the street vendors along Silom threw a bag to Dave. He caught it, and we got into a taxi.
Dave told the driver to take us to my hotel. Already, I thought? Even though it was only 2am or so, I was incredibly drunk, so I went along with it. What else was I gonna do? And anyway I needed to relieve my bladder and wouldn't mind doing so in my clean hotel bathroom.
But when I got out of the bathroom, Dave was smoking crystal meth.
Our relationship didn't last much longer. Sure, we texted but only so Dave could ask me for money and call me vile names when I refused.
In December 2020, almost a year into the pandemic and years since I had blocked Dave on Line, his best friend called me to say he was dead.
At this point, I hadn't known anything but pain from Dave for years. Still, though, knowing someone I had spent so many great nights and days with was dead, well, it still hurts.
So maybe I feel your pain. I keep Dave in my memory because that's all I can do.
 
 

Perhaps even worse is when a boy you care about just disappears and you have no idea what happened to him, even after many years have passed. Around 16 years ago I would occasionally go to the up-market Italian restaurant Zanotti on Saladaeng. Sometimes a client would take me. At others I would go with friends. Expensive at evening time, it had a very good set lunch at a very reasonable price. There was one waiter who I found especially attractive. Mid-20s, he came from a town in Isaan. His English was good and his smile virtually to die for. I usually chatted with him. Over time we became friends although he always said he was not gay.
As his room was not far from my condo, I invited him round for drinks after work one evening. I was surprised that he came. Soon he would come quite frequently, almost always sleeping overnight on the sofa. For his birthday, I got a cake from the Mandarin Oriental shop and he was so happy. He said he'd never had a birthday cake before! Only on 2 or 3 occasions would he knock on my door and ask to sleep with me. Although i was not in love with him, I loved his company. He could be wonderfully funny and we spent many evenings on the sofa just chatting and laughing. I considered him a lovely close friend.
After about a year, he and several other staff left Zanotti following a disagreement with the manager. He told me that of the 10% service charge, the manager kept 8.5% leaving the staff to share just 1.5%. Eventually he told me that he wanted to work overseas. The Mango Tree restaurant (near Tawan Bar) had a namesake in Dubai. He had been offered a job there. I checked the contract with which I told him there were several problems. He tried to bring them up with the manager here but was told it was take it or leave it. So he signed and flew off to Dubai. In several early emails he told me how much he was enjoying the work and being in Dubai. Soon, though, things began to turn sour and he wanted to break his contract and just leave. He did have his passport but no air ticket which he was saving up for. I told him just to get the ticket and I would pay him the balance.
Back in Bangkok, he did a couple of part-time restaurant jobs before he was offered a post on one of the Royal Viking Line Cruise ships. Hugely excited, off he went to somewhere in the Baltic. When in ports he would email me saying he loved the job, despite the hard work. Eventually he had some leave coming up. He wrote and asked if he could stay with me in Bangkok. Of course I agreed. Having given me his dates, he said he'd contact me when he got back to Thailand. Sure enough, he mailed me to say he had arrived but would first go to see his family. He'd come to Bangkok after 6 days. That was the last I heard from him!
I mailed him several times. They were unanswered. I left sms messages on his phone which was still working. No reply. I called and just got the ring tone. After a couple of months I wrote that I did not care what had happened to him - maybe he'd married, maybe found a long-term boyfriend, maybe been in a bad accident - all I wanted to know was that he was OK and perhaps see him if he came to Bangkok. If he needed help, I was here. Again no reply. 
I hope he is somewhere and happily settled down with the good job he deserves and a love life that he enjoys. If I could just get one mail saying that, I'd be really happy for him. It would also set my mind at ease. My fear is that something happened when he was back with his family and he died. It's the not knowing that occasionally, even now, gnaws at me.

Part 6: A rainy day keeps the customers and boys away... 
It was a rainy Sunday evening yesterday. It was already 10:15pm, and I was looking out of the window of my hotel room waiting for the rain to stop. From the 17th floor of Le Méridien I couldn't really tell how hard it actually rained. So I decided just to give it a go. Patpong 2 is just a very short walk from the hotel anyway. 
Not too wet I arrived in an empty street where some touts under umbrellas offered me a dry place to shelter. I still didn't go to Hotmale yet the last days so without much chitchat in the street with the tout, I directly walked upstairs.
There it seemed the rain had kept everybody away. Both the clients and the boys. I counted 6 customers. And 8 boys on stage. But you only need one nice boy to have a great evening, right? Quality over quantity. 

Drink 400 baht. Boys on stage wearing jeans and some even sleeveless white shirt with Hotmale logo on it. But I don't complain, as I did see some eyecandy on stage. A very friendly papasan started a nice conversation with me. He also told me 5 of the 8 boys were gay and can be fucked. From these 5 there were at least 3 I could take home because they were my cup of tea... 
One of them was the whole time smiling at me. He had a very cute and nice smile. If you would visit Hotmale when he's there, you would definitely be able to pick him out of the line of boys directly. He's the one with by far the nicest smile and naughty sparkle in his eyes. I directly felt for it and knew straight away he was going to be my off for tonight. But I like to play hard to get a littlebit. So I teased him, smiled back. But also flirted with some other boys. 
The show started. Papasan told me gonna be short show because quiet night. I could completely understand. It was a bit awkward for the boys to do a few acts for only a few customers. It started with a very original but strange act: a boy in small underwear and virus ball toys (like on the picture below) attached to his custome came on stage and was chased away by a boy in protective clothing and mouth mask. 

After 3 acts is was already time for theasr part; the big cock show with 3 boys showing their junk. One of them had I think the biggest cock I've ever seen in Thailand. So if that's your thing you now know where to go... I tipped all 3 guys 100 baht. As soon the show was over and all boys came on stage again I invited Mr Cutesmile over for a drink. During the show some more customers came in and I couldn't have somebody else quickly take him before I could make a move. 
Tere was nowhere a ladyboy/showgirl to be found in Hotmale. Which was nice for a change after the overkill of ladyboys I witnessed the last two days. Let's not speak about the low quality of the acts, but at least for originality they score a 10 because of the covid act... Lol
Mr Cutesmile is from Cambodia and was massageboy in Phnom Penh before. Conversation was a bit difficult because his limited knowledge of the English language and me failing to speak Khmer. Paid my bill (including 500 baht off fee) and went with Mr Cutesmile to 7-eleven to buy a drink and baby oil for the massage. No questions asked by the reception staff of Le Méridien, only a very friendle welcome back greet like always. 
We shower seperate. I can tell Mr Cutesmile is a bit nervous. So I tell him we start with massage and will see. I assure him we don't need to do anything he doesn't want. Because I got the feeling his nervousness was fueled by the papasan telling him I am top and want to fuck him. This boy was cute enough for massage, some touching, enjoying his body and sucking. And that's what happend. I don't always have to fuck. I actually only enjoy it when the boy that I'm with enjoys it too or at least gives me that impression. Massage skills of Mr Cutesmile are oke. Not too hard, not too soft. Perfect for me. When the deed was done we showered together. After another attempt to have a small conversation (via google translate) it was time to send him on his way... 
 

He's still here alive and well aren't you Billy!