[Should we be ashamed to meeting younger men ?]

21 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

Im just going to get to the point here with this post

So many comments on tiktok older men meeting young guys for friends or casual hookups are classified as P 

In your moral opinion is it ok for a 60yo to meet a 20yo for coffee or friends 

I know in Thailand it's ok but in the West 

 

 

Of course we shouldn’t feel ashamed. What rubbish!

It is not standard issue, but many things are not standard issue and conforming to other people’s norms is tiresome and limiting.

What matters is the same thing that matters in any connection with another person – is it honest, transparent, non-exploitative, respectful, caring, an equal exchange?

If it is not these things, then possibly we should be ashamed of ourselves. If it is these things for both parties, then it is a good thing.   

Many of my friends and family know about my relationship with Bangkok Guy. The initial reaction might be cautious, but after talking with him over Line, hearing me speak of him and seeing his photo around the house, its is accepted and now they ask about him. After seeing that it is a real friendship, they are fine.

I think people react to the vibe that is given off. They might stare initially because Spring/Autumn is not the norm, but once they see a friendship they are fine and they put away their judgmental faculties.

The same question can be put to the Spring part of the equation.

I asked Bangkok Guy what people thought about him having an old Falang boyfriend.

His first reaction was ‘you not old’, a nice piece of loyalty for which I thanked him and put aside. Then came the awkward body language indicating that there was something negative, because as he does not voice negative things it comes out as body language, and ‘I make my own decisions’. So clearly not everyone in his circle thinks our relationship is a good thing.   

He wants an older Falang boyfriend. He told me he had asked Buddha for one. ‘So Buddha lead me to you?’ “Yes” ‘I need to go to temple and talk to Buddha’, at which he looked alarmed until I continued ‘I need to say thank you’ which brought a big smile.

It came out that one of the things he prays for at temple is that I will love him, which led to a penny dropping.

Last time I asked him what he wanted for his birthday we went through the usual cycle from plain silly, because he likes pulling my chain (“Apartment building, that one there, is small, you can buy”. It was not small), through aspirational to see if I will bite (“Motorbike’, no I am too poor), to what he really wants “You give me money to go temple save cow”. Saving cow “Is for Lucky”.

I am afraid that the contrast between ‘motorbike’ and ‘save cow’ struck me as so wide that I almost fell off the bed trying not to laugh, while he watched tolerantly because sometimes with Falang that is all you can do.

The dropping penny was ‘When you save cow, what you pray for?’

A wickedly mischievous grin and with great conviction “Now you love me Long Time”.

I don’t think he is ashamed, and neither am I.

[What about Koh Chang?]

We stayed at the Santhiya Tree Koh Chang Resort and can recommend it.

Long beach with lots of alternatives for dining or a drink. All very relaxed. Even went to the local fair and Morlam concert. 

Nothing gay beyond the two of us, although we were not looking so may have missed it. 

Don't remember sighting any Russians. 

We pre-booked transport to and from the airport through Ian-on-Koh-Chang and in addition to making life easy it also meant we caught the ferry we needed to catch the return flight. The que of cars backed up for miles and our driver just drove past them all to a separate 'first boarding' que.

[How do Thais View the Chinese?]

1 hour ago, spoon said:

Not sure if i made sense of bangkok guy ways of thinking. But from your story, this is what i understood lol

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. 😆

[How do Thais View the Chinese?]

I am continuing this thread, but the turn of the discussion might better fit under ‘Can we ever understand the Thais?’

After some time back in Bangkok it is clear that the issue with the apartment is a little bit Chinese, but a lot more family.

Getting that clarity has been an entertainingly circular process because of Bangkok Guy’s indirectness and his chronic inability to work out his priorities and make quick decisions.

It is just as well that I like him and accept the non-linear nature of his decision making, so that I find the process of discovering what he is actually thinking entertaining.

First day back we spent a couple of hours looking at apartments on-line and it seemed to me the process was going in circles. Bangkok Guy was just not consistent in what he seemed to want.

So out with the spreadsheet to tabulate what we both prioritized in an apartment.

The obvious difference is that I prioritize the amenities – swimming pool, meeting room – and he doesn’t, and I am very flexible on location while he wants an apartment along a defined but longish stretch of the metro because he has friends in the area.

The less obvious bit was the permissible Chinese representation and the size/# of bedrooms.

It was soon clear that while a high Chinese representation was not desirable, the Chinese presence was not the real issue. Apartment size trumped Chinese and apartments in older buildings were larger and so more desirable than smaller apartments in newer buildings with more amenities.

Then the first brick dropped.

Bangkok Guy’s mother is moving back to Issan and his sister needs somewhere to stay. It is his responsibility to make sure she has somewhere and to keep an eye on her. “I not have choice”.

Ok, but then we need two bedrooms, which fits into the budget, so no problem. Well a bit of one as I would prefer just the two of us, but his sister is pleasant and he feels responsible.

‘Not need two bedrooms, sister can sleep in living room. Two bed too expensive. Just need larger apartment’.

No, we need two bedrooms. I’m not walking around your sister and I need a space to work.

I pointed to one of the apartments that he had first shown me – modern building, all the amenities I want and two bedrooms within budget – this one works.

But somehow now it didn’t work, older buildings with large 1 bedroom apartments were inexplicably better, so we left it in illogical suspension for a day.

When I don’t understand something with Bangkok Guy, give it some time and the fog usually clears.

At the end of a day in Silom/Sathorn for shopping and dining and jazz Bangkok Guy announced that I needed to live in Sathorn. “It where shopping and restaurants and jazz is, you like. And White People live (he always uses White People, not Falang to refer to Europeans)”.

But what about you, it is not the area you want, it is long way from friends?    ‘I take metro’.

“Also is too far from (sister’s) university. She can have own apartment near university and we live Sathorn”

But don’t you have to supervise her?  Some squirming body language from Bangkok Guy.

I need you to be happy, can’t get new apartment and then you worry about sister and want to change again. Finding accommodation for sister make you happy?   “Yes”

Have sister live with us make you happy?   A guilty look and “Happy but only a little bit”

Ok, so we can get two apartments, one for your sister and one for us, or we can get one apartment with two bedrooms. Cost same, you choose (It does cost the same but our apartment is much better than sister’s).

“Cannot choose, you have to choose”.

And the second brick drops.

Bangkok Guy wants it to be just the two of us, but he can’t conscientiously make that decision.

But if I, a White Person, need to live in Sathorn with other White People, then that is too far from university and it becomes logical for sister to have her own apartment. She has been housed, but not chaperoned, for reasons outside of his control.

Coincidentally Sathorn has a stock of older larger 1 bedroom apartments, who knew?

 In a non-linear, indirect and indecisive way Bangkok Guy had been building his way to this solution.

He is now happily looking for apartments in Sathorn, nest building for his preferred number, 2.

His sister is a solidly sensible young woman, who happens to like other women, and so probably does not need a chaperone.

[How do Thais View the Chinese?]

10 hours ago, Department_Of_Agriculture said:

Some of that is covered in this Bangkok Post article.

Thanks, this explains a lot. 

[Can We Ever Really Understand Thais?]

15 hours ago, Londoner said:

And here's a Thai word, a concept perhaps, that needs to be understood...."gatanyuu".

@Londoner      Can you explain 'gatanyuu'?  A Google search only brings up a comic character. 

[How do Thais View the Chinese?]

9 hours ago, vinapu said:

but it was immensely annoying so no wonder Bangkok Guy is ballistic.

 

6 hours ago, Boy69 said:

better cut losses and move somewhere else just make sure no Chinese there .

Bangkok Guy has a good ear for accents. On our first walk-through of the building he enjoyed telling me "this person China, this person Singapore, etc" and by the number of "this person China" it was clear the building was majority Chinese, which at the time did not phase him. However, at the time he had not experienced being a minority. 

He looked so guilty admitting that he wanted to move to a new building that I had to agree that he can look for alternatives to show me when I am next in Bangkok.

It is a shame as the building has fantastic facilities, I really like it, but fantastic facilities are nothing if Bangkok Guy is unhappy there.

[How do Thais View the Chinese?]

8 hours ago, vinapu said:

there's something in it. Actually a lot

that comment brought me memories of long distance  travel by buses  in China  in mid-80-ties.

Cost of ticket included overnighting in some cavernous halls on the road , there was some bedding on the floor  but basically whole busload of people was sleeping, at least some nights,  in one big space. 

If was obvious that other passengers thought  nothing about  screaming to their friends across the hall in deep middle of the night and when we tried to gesture to keep quiet , plainly they  did not understand what fuss is all about. The same in sleeping coaches on the train.

Then we took it as part and parcel of exotic travel (it was shortly  after  big chunks of China  was opened to independent foreign travel )  but it was immensely annoying so no wonder Bangkok Guy is ballistic.

Tell him he has full support from old vinapu.

To be fair I must add that during quite a few long flights I took with various Chinese airlines there were no middle of the night noise problems.  

Your experience reminds me of two two long ago trips of mine.

The first was to China in the 1970s when group travel was still required. It was a great experience with one exception. Walking down old narrow streets I became mildly paranoid about the sound of vigorous throat clearing from high above that was the prelude to the flight of a descending gob of phlegm.

On the flight home the front two rows were occupied by a group of officials in Mao suits from whose ranks emanated the sound of a vigorous throat clearing - my burst of laughter overtook me so suddenly that my own nasal passages got a good rinse out with champagne. 

The second was a trip to Japan followed by HK in the 1980s. Crawling through HK in a cab from old Kai Tak airport to my hotel surrounded by the bustling, sweating and yelling throng I felt that I was back among 'real people' after the politeness and neatness of Japan. 

 

[How do Thais View the Chinese?]

Bangkok Guy and I took an apartment together this year and it has worked very well, until now.

It came about as he planned to move to a larger apartment close to transport and I am now in Bangkok much more frequently so that an apartment makes financial sense versus hotels. So we combined plans and looked for an apartment that suited us both - higher-end for me and location for him.

Looking at options in his preferred area we selected an apartment in a new building with fantastic amenities (required by me not by him, but enjoyed by him all the same) that was over twice as much as he had planned to pay but still a good deal for me compared to a hotel. 

All has been well until about a month ago when I asked on a web call how the apartment was and got some awkward body language. All was not well in paradise. The new Chinese neighbor was too noisy. A friend of his who speaks Chinese asked the neighbor if he could be quieter and the basic response was no, for various reasons.

He would really like to change apartments.

At first I thought he meant within the building, away from the noisy neighbor. But it turns out he wants to go to another building altogether, with Thai and Falang people not Chinese "This building so many Chinese". He has not gone into detail on what is wrong with 'so many Chinese' apart from a general comment that they talk loudly.

The lack of a detailed complaint does not surprise me as I have never known him to go into detail if he does not like something, simply indicating dislike with a general reason is enough. He seems to feel that getting too explicitly negative is bad form. 

I am surprised as he has friends of different nationalities and his last building had Chinese tenants, maybe just not 'so many'. 

Since we have not yet been there a year we will loose the deposit, and given how frugal Bangkok Guy is even with my money he must really want out if he is prepared to do that. 

I have agreed that he can hunt for another apartment and I will look at what he has found when I am next in Bangkok. 

Hence my question - does anyone have any insight into how Thais view the Chinese?

Bangkok Guy is generally very friendly, likes people and gets on well with them. He is sensitive to how polite people are - he was very impressed with how polite the Japanese were when we were in Japan - so all I can come up with is that he finds the Chinese en masse too rude to be in the middle of. 

 

 

[Passing Time with Bangkok Guy]

19 hours ago, floridarob said:

People that are on fixed pensions or Social Security, really have a dent put in their lifestyle

 

18 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Please save in one form or another a good deal more than you think you might need.

Since the financial crisis in 2008 we have been living through one of the most difficult investment environments in my life.

Responding to the GFC the Fed, ECB and PBOC pumped out money and lowered interest rates, which saved the banks and the LBOs but made it very difficult for savers to earn a living income from low risk bonds. So people put more of their savings into higher risk assets.

However, the lower interest rates and greater liquidity lead to asset valuations rising to speculative levels.

Then, just as the Fed was beginning to gradually and judiciously unwind the situation we get clobbered over and over again by alternating waves of stupidity and misfortune.

Trump begins it by disrupting trade, leading to higher prices which risk higher inflation expectations. Then Trump cuts taxes pro-cyclically, pumping more liquidity into the system when the Fed is trying to reduce it. When you are sitting on the largest stock of base money as a % of GDP since the financing of WWII, you do not do things which might awaken inflation expectations.

Then Covid hits and (i) sends prices higher by disrupting supply chains and normal demand patterns and (ii) causes the Fed, the ECB and the PBOC to pump even more liquidity in and lower interest rates to close to 0. US base money, already at the highest % of GDP since the financing of WWI goes stratospheric. It is no longer possible to live off the yield on less risky bonds and asset valuations climb again.

Finally, the combination of massive liquidity, zero rates and rising prices from supply chain disruptions wake inflation from its thirty years of slumber and the Fed, the ECB and the PBOC, staring at the specter of inflation 1970s style, jam the brakes on and begin what turns out to be the most rapid rise in interest rates-relative-to-the-starting-point seen in anyone’s lifetime.

Investors get whipsawed as the value of both bonds and equities falls.

But that’s not all folks!

It turns out that V. Putin has a Dream of Legacy so moronic and out-of-step with reality that it beggars belief.

And also beggars us as it adds further supply chain disruptions and an oil price shock.

Now inflation is out of bed and at the bar knocking back the bourbon.

People get another whipsawing as rates rise and consumer prices accelerate away from earnings.

Right now I have no idea where to invest. The valuation of equities is still high – the P/E ratio of the S&P is around 25 versus an historical average of 16 – and inflation and further rate increases are still a risk.

My only solution is to (i) work more and (ii) spend less. Spending much less and saving much more.

I have seen genteel poverty. To escape its death-by-one-thousand-cuts-of-dreariness-and-embarrassment much older friends here recently downsized to Florida. I want no part of it.

I told Bangkok Guy I need to make more money to retire.

His very sincere response was ‘Not problem, when you no make money anymore I work and make money for us’.

He is very sweet and sincere. I am lucky to be in caring hands. Alas, those hands are not capable of making enough to cover my martini bill, LOL.

Mine own hands need to get busy.

[Passing Time with Bangkok Guy]

17 hours ago, Boy69 said:

I am not sure at the moment what direction our relationship will goes  and it's not a simple situation for me.

I wish you and your friend the best. I know I don't need to remind you to only commit funds that you can spare. 

[Passing Time with Bangkok Guy]

The last year has flown by with no time to put pen to paper, but also less inclination as Bangkok Guy and I have begun to fit into a routine in each other’s lives.

Business brings me to the region more frequently and Bangkok Guy now joins me for the weekend wherever I am. We have also enjoyed a couple of longer trips to Thai islands and to Japan.

Tokyo, it turns out, is not just shopping, although he did a lot of that, finding great deals on clothing. Bangkok Guy has wanted to live in Japan since he was a child. It has both natural beauty and Tokyo. It is clean, it is efficient, he likes the food and the people are polite. The hotel staff bowed to him which made a big impression. It ticks all his boxes. He had a blast. We will return.

However, this note is not a travelog. Rather, it is an observation on some of the realities, particularly the financial realities, of a relationship begun in a bar.

The short term reality is that, for very logical reasons, a relationship is a lot more expensive than bar hopping.

Like every other bar guy Bangkok Guy worked in a bar to meet financial needs. As he straightforwardly puts it ‘I am poor person’. Over the years I have known him I have come to understand how difficult it is for him to maintain a steady income, let alone to grow his income.

He is economical and careful with money, including my money. I visited his apartment, a studio in a well kept building in a less convenient location distant from public transport.  Clean, tidy, crammed in an orderly manner with his market stock. Microwave, hot plate, modest sized TV, shrine. Nothing expensive or flashy.   

When I first agreed to give him an allowance we made a spreadsheet of all his expenses and his income. He was at best breaking even and, given down time for bad weather, more likely net negative. Initially the allowance covered half his expenses.

During covid the unstable nature of his income became very obvious, so I increased the allowance to cover all his expenses.

However, given the Thai family structure, his responsibilities extend beyond just looking after himself. Since his father left he is responsible for his mother and younger sister, particularly his sister. This puts huge pressure on him, which he does not like to bring to me but he has no other solution. So I have agreed to cover some of these family responsibilities. I have seen enough documentation that I am pretty sure that the money goes where I think it goes. Also, after six years, I trust Bangkok Guy.

An allowance which was originally a little more than I would spend in the bars during a couple of trips each year is now about three to four times that amount. Not an amount that will cripple me, but now enough to notice.

Despite the greater expense, I get more out of spending the money this way. Helping Bangkok Guy makes me happy.   

The long term financial reality is the same as that for any relationship where the financial gap between the partners is large. To retire and maintain my lifestyle with Bangkok Guy will be more expensive than doing it solo. For starters I intend to travel a lot and I will need the resources to cover travel for two. More enjoyable, but more expensive.

Bangkok Guy and my goal is to be living together in three years’ time. I need those three years to improve my finances so that I can have my cake and eat it too. To be with Bangkok Guy with no diminution of lifestyle.

It’s good for me. I now have a lot of motivation as I head down the final stretch.

 

[Is Thailand's Gay Nightlife Overpriced?]

1 hour ago, Patanawet said:

So Thailand not so bad, however I recall when I first moved here a score or more years ago, Thailand prices were a fraction of London prices.

They were, but a lot of it is the exchange rate. Using @thaiophilus 's numbers, the chart shows the number of Chang beers you could buy for the cost of a Soho pint. Currently it is 1.75 but in the past it has been as high as 3.25. This doesn't account for any change in the local currency cost of beer, which may make the difference even larger. 

 

 

[Your life as a senior gay man]

52 minutes ago, wtfool said:

I am what I am and quite frankly I don't have the balls and my life has been much poorer for it.

Similar case to @floridarob , when I was in my teens an elderly and very glamorous friend of my parents told me that the only regrets in life are the things you didn't do.

She appeared to have it all, still stylish approaching 80, in demand at social events, wealth. She had never married because the man she loved had not been good enough for her in her family's eyes and unable to marry the man she wanted without being cut off from the family money, she devoted her life to being an ornament on the social circuit. As she approached 80 it was a decision she very much regretted. 

Her advice to me was very clear: you have one shot at life, live it for who you are and want to be, don't live it to conform to the expectations of others.  

Buying a condo in Pattaya suggests to me that you have attempted to start a new life.

Why not make a second attempt?

Buy a condo somewhere else, away from you new 'hetro friends', and start over with a plan, a clearer vision and determination of who you want to be, who you want your friends to be and what you want to experience in the next phase of your life. 

[Pattaya Questions, after Due Dilengence]

6 hours ago, Boy69 said:

You mentioned two important reasons why almost all Falang-Thai relationships failed and even if initially all is fine eventually collapse.

I agree.

21 minutes ago, kokopelli 2 said:

Most of my farang friends in Pattaya have relocated here successfully so it is both possible and practical. 

If I were able and willing to relocate to Thailand it would a different ball game and I think the chances of a relationship would be much better. 

[Pattaya Questions, after Due Dilengence]

4 hours ago, 12is12 said:

CurtisD, how do/did u interact with these 2 LTR guys?

English, Thai, Translator?

Both were from my own country, in my own country, in my home town, highly educated, successful and independent, one my own age and the other younger, and in my own language. 

We communicated directly in Amharic. 🙂

The connection with Bangkok Guy is quite novel to me. I am learning as I go along. 

[Pattaya Questions, after Due Dilengence]

5 hours ago, floridarob said:

The fact that you have 3 categories already of financial help....😲

These are not three different categories of financial help. 

These are three different tones in which Bangkok Guy asks for financial help. I am able to identify them because I pay attention. If I were not paying attention I probably would not notice the difference. 

5 hours ago, floridarob said:

I Consider a relationship when you live with each other....otherwise it remains friends with benefits.

Fair enough but in the context of my post somewhat redundant.  I did say ".. if Bangkok Guy and I decided to go for an actual full time relationship.."    I see the connection between Bangkok Guy and myself as a friendship which may progress to a full-blooded relationship at some point or may not. Not having been in this situation before I am playing it by ear.  

[Pattaya Questions, after Due Dilengence]

If I were looking for a relationship a bar boy is the last place I would start in any country for a whole host of reasons.

I have never intended to get involved with any of the bar guys in Bangkok and, when I take a step back, the fact that I am now involved with Bangkok Guy to the extent that I am still surprises me.

As the relationship began in a bar my ability to help him financially is an inevitable part of the relationship. To ask if a bar boy would stay in a relationship without the financial support is, I think, fatuous. On their side, the need for financial support is a baked-in part of the reason they are there.

The more relevant question is whether the relationship can be one of a fair and equal exchange with respect and caring on both sides.

If the falang treats the guy as a sex doll, a trophy, or as bought property, or just generally fails to consider his needs, there will be no long term relationship. If the guy does not like or respect the falang, or if he thinks it is purely short term, then he is likely to view the falang as an ATM to be emptied as quickly as possible, and there will be no long term relationship.

However, if each likes and respects the other, both are transparent about their needs and the exchange of needs seems a fair trade, there is a chance it might work subject to the vicissitudes of all relationships including compatibility with each other’s friends and families and ability to co-locate.  

Again making it plain that I am aware that I do not have a full understanding of the situation, my perception is that if Bangkok Guy and I decided to go for an actual full time relationship the main problems are:

(i)               Ability to co-locate. I do not want to live in Thailand. Bangkok Guy is clear that he does not care where he lives as long as it is with me. That’s nice to hear, but not practical.

(ii)              Bangkok Guy’s responsibility to look after his mother and sister and possible wider family network ties.

It’s the second point where there are possible transparency issues around how much I am viewed as an ATM to be emptied as quickly as possible.

Bangkok Guy completely lacks a poker face. What he is thinking, his state of mind, is on his face, especially if you know him. It has the benefit of making communication easier.

When Bangkok Guy asks me for financial assistance he does so in one of three ways.

(i)               Completely openly and hopefully. This is his expression when he is discussing his own needs. He is approaching me as his friend to fulfill the financial part of my role in the relationship. He has always been very straightforward in these discussions and I enjoy them as I get a clear view into his circumstances and his hopes.

(ii)              Complete panic. This has only happened once during Covid when his part of the family couldn’t make their payment on the time-payment-tractor. It has only happened once and no one could fake the sheer panic on his face, let alone someone without a poker face.

(iii)            Reluctantly with submissive/concerned body language and a concerned face. On these occasions he is asking for help with something to do with the family, not himself.

The first two approaches are consistent with a relationship based on fair trade.

The third concerned/submissive approach is the one where suspicious minds could raise questions.

Does his expression indicate guilt as he knows he is pulling a con, or reluctance as he thinks it might strain our relationship, or frustration & reluctance as he resents having to bear the responsibility of looking after the family?

My guess, guess, is that it is some combination of the last two.

Bangkok Guy takes his responsibilities to his family seriously. He is a stoic and not one to complain. But just occasionally a look or the tone of voice lets it slip that he resents the responsibility and the demands it places on him. It shows in his schizophrenic attitude to his home town. On the one hand he loves its physical beauty and clean air, on the other hand going there to be with family is not his favorite thing.  

I also suspect that his family may view me as a family ATM. “Son, you have great success, bring ATM to family, now empty ATM while the going is good, falang so unreliable need to empty now” while Bangkok Guy does not see it this way.

I think Bangkok Guy wants a long term relationship. Misuse and abuse of the ATM is not consistent with that. My guess is that his family puts him in a difficult position.

I have had two long term relationships, the first of which was with a successful self-made guy from a quite dysfunctional family who, after he became successful, made his life very difficult with their demands for lifestyle uplift. I thought they were a pack of c#nts and would have cut them off, after all they cut him off when they found out he was gay, before he became successful which somehow overcame their distaste for gay, but they were his family and he needed their acceptance (worthless and self-centered though it was).

I suspect Bangkok Guy is in an analogous situation, although (i) his family are simply poor, only mildly dysfunctional and have no objection to him being gay and (ii) he is bound to them through the need to fulfill social norms more than through emotional dependence.

If I am right in this, if, then the risk is that Bangkok Guy decides at some point that his dream of a long term relationship is not going to happen, or that I will not give him enough assistance to start his own business and become independent, in which case he is exposed to a return to a low-and-unreliable market income and a hand-to-mouth existence, in which case he may as well empty the ATM while he can.  

Bangkok Guy and I need to maintain faith in each other. Without trust, there is nothing.

 

[Cambodian boys versus Thai boy scams]

I have been reading this thread with interest and thought I would share my experience with Bangkok Guy.

I will preface this by admitting that as I do not speak Thai and am not on the spot, I may well completely misunderstand the situation and wake up one day to find it is indeed all a con.

However, from my experience of Bangkok Guy, I don’t think it is.

Bangkok Guy has three different sets of financial needs:

·        His own living expenses – rent, food, transport etc

·        Obligations from before the time that we met. These are wider family obligations such as the time-payment-tractor.

·        The obligation to look after his mother and sister, if they need help.

The allowance I give him covers the first category (based on a comprehensive spreadsheet).

I decided to cover his living expenses after I came to understand how unreliable and volatile his income from the market stalls is.

With his living expenses covered, as long as he is working, he should be set, yes?

Well, no. Not all the time and especially not if there are emergencies.

Partly it goes back to the unreliability of the market stall income. Durian was good business, then prices fell. Then in the wet season the markets are not open every day, so he can’t work every day. If he can’t work for a prolonged period he gets stressed, even though his rent and other expenses are covered by the allowance, as experience tells him that at some point he will need to help out his mother and sister.

He has been stressed about money for several months but, while telling me he has ‘pobpems’, he has been reluctant to ask for my help, even after I ask directly what the problem is and ‘How can I help?’

Finally, after several months, very awkwardly and embarrassed, he let me in on the problem. His sister had been in a traffic accident. It was her fault. Fortunately she is recovering ok. Unfortunately she is liable for the hospital bills and the damages. As he always does where money is concerned, he sent documentation. Pics of his sister in hospital and her ruined motor scooter. As the man in the family, he is expected to sort it out, and without my help he can’t.

He is very stressed about this. It appears to me that most of his stress comes from having to ask me for help. He is clear that this is his problem, not my problem. I do not have to become involved.

On the one hand, he could be a fantastic psychologist, taking the burden on himself knowing that I will respect that and offer to help. Top of the Class manipulation!

What I think is more likely the case is that he really does not want to drag me into his family’s problems as he thinks it will alienate me, damage our relationship and he will loose me.  

He looks sick as he names the sum he needs. He still looks stressed after I agree to send the money. He thanks me, but he is stressed. He needs to see that I am truly ok with this, that it hasn’t damaged the relationship.

I switch topics to our next trip, to Tokyo and Koh Samui. Ask him if he wants to take the Shinkansen to Kyoto. Show him the black cashmere jumper I bought for him so he will be warm in the Tokyo winter. He still does not look happy.  “You need relax, work too much” Ah! A possible insight. He always thinks I work too much and need to relax more in order to live longer. Now he has put an additional burden on me.

“In Tokyo and Koh Samui, I follow you” “You follow me? Sleep all day and all night?” He is looking more cheerful.

“Not all day, I get bored, but yes we sleep. I look after you, you look after me”.

Now he is smiling. I follow him. He is contributing something. We are still ok.

 

[Air Fares to Thailand 2022]

22 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Anyone done any checking on mileage tickets from/to BKK to/from UK recently? My miles are always put into the Cathay Pacific programme, Asia Miles, which also includes Qatar Airlines. 3 weeks ago I tried to book a biz class mileage ticket on QR to the UK and back for next March.  When told nothing on my preferred flights, I gave the operator a selection of other dates. Again nothing available. Merely to check, I then asked for any flight to Doha during a two week period. Although there are scheduled to be more than 50 flights during this period (and all QR flights seem to be operating), allegedly not one flight had even one biz class seat available. I found this totally unbelievable.

Asia Miles could provide no explanation. But I do recall that when Qantas used to service BKK as a stop on its London/Sydney route, it had a policy of mileage tickets only being avaiable first to its loyalty members until about 6 months prior to flights. When then made available to others, there were never any seats avaiable. Anyone had a similar experience with QR 9 months in advance?

This is exactly my experience. Nothing available business or first over January or February. After an hour searching any airline in the network the agent managed to find me a quirky route at much higher cost than normal.  I will keep checking to see if something more logical opens up.

Others have covered the likely reasons well: some airlines have not resumed flights to Bangkok so in aggregate there is less availability; business travel has resumed; people have more cash after two years of no travel and are happy to up-grade; people want the greater personal space in business and first due to continuing Covid concerns. 

[Air Fares to Thailand 2022]

Up until early June I have got good deals with airmiles. Great flights, similar cost to pre-Covid. Not anymore.

With increased demand colliding with reduced schedules, fares are significantly increased.

I only use airmiles if I can get business or first, otherwise it is better to pay cash for economy as the taxes due when using airmiles are usually roughly equal to a no-discount economy fare. 

I have just spent an hour with a very helpful person from my favored airline trying to use airmiles (any combination of airlines on their network) to get to Bangkok business/first for any two-week period in January/February 2023. 

Finally, success (I owe the agent big time for their expertise and persistence), but a more complex route at an approximately 60% increase in cost (both cash and airmiles) above my trip in May/June.  

$1000 above current economy (in the past it has been roughly equivalent), $1100 above my May/June trip but $12,000 below the business/first fare if I paid cash (for the convoluted route). 

I must really like Bangkok Guy. (Yes, I do). 

[A Proper Return :)]

Making Things Click

I can make a list of many things, but however long the list it would not explain why Bangkok Guy and I click as we do. Something just works, and to my surprise and delight keeps on working.

Since I can’t explain it, I will give the last word to Bangkok Guy.

Lounging Thai-style on the deck after lunch at Koh Lipe a self-assured bird struts around hunting crumbs. Bangkok Guy sees me watching it. “Chicken”. “No, I think it is Mynah bird”. “Is chicken”. On my iphone I look up Mynah bird and show Bangkok Guy the picture. A pause, and with a serious “this is fact face” given the lie by a slight smile at the edges of the mouth and eyes “In Thailand is chicken”.

[A Proper Return :)]

16 hours ago, vaughn said:

is an app called Ling

Thanks very much, I will look this up.

[A Proper Return :)]

Communication

My name is being called urgently with the cute mangling of a consonant that tells me it is Bangkok Guy who wants me. We are due to go snorkeling in ten minutes and ensconced in reception with a coffee, a sea view and my laptop I have lost track of time. Bangkok Guy knows that I sometimes loose track of time when I work and he is rounding me up. Just as I nudge him along when we have an early start and get the inevitable “mpfh, few minute” as he smiles and snuggles back down (I know from experience he will be more-or-less on time).  

As I stand it feels like a knife has gone through my intestines. I have been eating higher-spiced local Thai food for over a week now and my stomach has begun to protest. Eating Thai food with Bangkok Guy is like eating with a highly vigilant food taster. It is a cannon of his belief that Falang cannot eat spicy food and he needs to protect me from it, steering me away from particularly spicy dishes and weeding out particularly hot peppers. My stomach is telling me he has a point, and I reluctantly tell him to go snorkeling without me.

A day’s break from each other turns out to be a good thing. He has a great time exploring the waters off several islands with the instructor and a Thai couple, a welcome rest from having to think in English. I spend the day in a hammock reading, enjoying doing precisely nothing. We decide to have dinner on the beach at Idyllic, an up-market treat of fresh-caught fish accompanied by a very good singer/guitarist. Bangkok Guy shares the instructor’s pics of the expedition, great shots of him with many colorful fish.

And then we sit and stare at each other because we have run not out of conversation, but out of words. It’s not the first time, and after this many days together it is becoming obvious. Because we observe each other we understand each other well in simple things and we are in tune with each other’s mood. However, if we are going to keep moving forward we have to improve our ability to communicate.

It is not the first time that better communication would make things smoother. A few nights earlier Bangkok Guy decided he was going to sleep cuddling a pillow, not me. We both enjoy cuddling, so this is surprising. “Why cuddle pillow not me?” “Pillow small” ?? “I take pillow” and we wrestled for control of the pillow until we are laughing so hard tears are rolling down our cheeks.

Bangkok Guy likes these contests of strength which usually occur over the remote or preventing him from tickling me and I always win, eventually, but not this time as while I have the two arms with which to pin him down I lack the third arm required to seize the pillow and the contest ends with him grinning at me over the pillow, reveling in his triumph.

None of which explains why he is cuddling the pillow. Feeling a little hurt I decide to sleep on it. With Bangkok Guy if I do not understand something time usually reveals what is going on. I wake in the morning way over on my side of the bed with the pillow hard against my back and Bangkok Guy asleep on the pillow. I turn over and find I am cuddling the pillow and am pleasantly in contact with Bangkok Guy. “Pillow small” now makes sense.

It is very comfortable and, as the light of understanding breaks I see it solves two problems that have been causing us to sleep apart and not sleep well. The hotels in both Bangkok and Chang Mai had covered duvets, not a separate duvet and sheet. Bangkok Guy likes sleeping under the duvet but after some time cuddled up close under a duvet I get too hot and, without the option of separating the duvet from the sheet, we end up sleeping apart. To compound matters, this trip I am snoring more because I have let some of the Covid pounds I got rid of before the January trip slip back on. I could do with loosing ten pounds. The snoring is not the issue as much as the dribbling from sleeping open-mouthed.

The pillow is comfortable, Bangkok Guy and I are in physical contact, I am not over-heating and any dribble is on the pillow. Bangkok Guy has discovered an effective heat and dribble barrier. Life would be smoother if he could communicate that to me.

We agree that by my next trip I have to master basic Thai and Bangkok Guy needs to improve his English.

If anyone has any recommendations for how to learn Thai, please let me know.

[A Proper Return :)]

Reciprocity

Bangkok Guy is good for me. This is not just my opinion but also that of friends.

Beyond being generally happy that I know him, he is slowly changing some of my habits and mind sets for the better. I no longer bolt down my food but put my cutlery down and pause between mouthfuls. I no longer feel compelled to eat and drink until the table is clear and the bottle empty. Following Bangkok Guy’s example, I now stop when I feel full without guilt about the leftovers. I am still organized by the clock independently of the day’s agenda – if it is x o’clock I must be up, or have accomplished y – but a little less so. Bangkok Guy is organized by the day’s agenda, not the clock, and if the agenda is empty he feels no compulsion to fill it but rather relaxes into the empty space. A little of this is rubbing off on me. A little.

I told Bangkok Guy this and it made him happy as it was reciprocal “You very good for me”, in a tone that sounded like a major statement.

I know his life is not easy. He is responsible for his mother and younger sister – he has pawned the ring-that-was-a-dragon to pay his sister’s school fees. Still, he is usually upbeat and cheerful so it surprised me (alarmed rather) when relaxing on the deck at Koh Lipe after a very enjoyable day snorkeling he said his head was so full of ‘pobpems’ that there was room for no more, illustrating this by filling a glass to the top with water “No more room”.

Right then it did not seem the time to press the issue. However back in Bangkok over dinner at Baan Suriyasai, the first outing in his tailored clothes, I enquired. “No worry, it nothing, I exaggerate”. “No, it is something. I want to understand”. A pause while he searches for words. “What my future? I not know. Have no power”. The issue is that without my support, if I drop dead or drop him, he would be in trouble, back to hand-to-mouth. He has several business ideas, but lacks the capital to initiate any of them. He has no power to change his situation.

Well, he has a little power, he has my goodwill.

I reassure him that our discussion in January still holds true. As I get new business, I will help him with the capital he needs. There is no guarantee on timing, but it will happen. He has proof that if I say something I follow through as this year, as travel opened up and business picked up, I increased his allowance.

He is a realist and knows the future is uncertain, but there is something here to hope for so, as a generally optimistic person, he is happy.

The importance of helping him get to a point where he has some independence (‘power’ in his words) is very clear. And as cost cutting is just as good and possibly more permanent than increasing income, I am going to try to adopt his frugal mindset to free up some cash. (That crashing sound is a friend falling off his chair laughing, ye of little faith!).