[Maybe it's the boys' choice]

37 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

With covid now rampant and totally out of control in China, Chinese tourists will not be returning in force until late 2024 at the very earliest - maybe even 2025.

I am truly sorry for the reasons why the Chines tourists can't come, but I have no objection to the fact that they can't come.  Many of us who live in Pattaya dread the day the hordes of Chinese tour buses return.  I, for one, am certain the city won't change a thing about how all that is handled, so sooner or later I am expecting the return of those buses causing major traffic, not to mention parking, problems.

As for the bars, they need to pay attention to their actual customer base.  I believe in Jomtien Complex and Sunee Plaza the vast majority of customers are American, British, and European.  I doubt many in that set are looking for outrageously high priced drinks, high off fees, aggressive mama-sans, and horrendously loud music volume.  If the bars want to succeed, they better consider what their customers are looking for - and it ain't boys wearing T-shirts and jeans . . .

[Maybe it's the boys' choice]

5 hours ago, reader said:

I suppose you can just as easily include Chiang Mai and Phuket. But lack of boys in skimpy attire is hardly responsible. I hope others will suggest what's actually responsible.

I think that is exactly what is responsible, but not by itself.  I would include the outrageously high prices, the apps, the world economy making it much more difficult for people to take expensive international holidays, and the fact that I see the bars doing absolutely nothing to attract customers.  After all, if I go to a go-go bar I at least want to enjoy it.  But boys in jeans and shorts?  What's to enjoy?  That certainly is not what I'm looking for.

What would you say, based on the way things are currently, does attract a good customer base?  Personally, I can't think of a damned thing.

I don't want to see the go-go bars all end up failing, but if that does happen I won't be in mourning and the bar owners will have no one to blame except the person they see in the mirror.

[Maybe it's the boys' choice]

2 hours ago, reader said:

Lets face it. Some performers--particularly the straight guys who dominate the trade--aren't excited about bopping around in briefs

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to face it - because I don't buy it.  First, I don't agree that it is necessarily straight guys who dominate the trade.  I'd say that depends on which bars you go to.  I've seen straight guys dominate in some bars, twinks in some bars, and a mixture in some bars.  The same is true on the apps.

Also whether it's the boys' choice or not, if that's what the bar, the boys, or both are choosing, then I think that's the wrong choice if they want to attract customers and increase their chances of being taken off.  Getting offs or, better still, hooking up with a sugar daddy is the main goal of working in a go-go bar, isn't it?  Nobody is forcing these boys to work in go-go bars.  If they are shy about appearing in thongs or whatever, then I'd day they're working in the wrong place.  If they are shy, then what are they doing and expecting by working in a go-go bar?

I can't speak for others, but as for me if they want my business, they're going to have to wear what will attract me.  T-shirts or shirtless, if they're wearing jeans instead of briefs, all that's going to do is get me to move on to another bar, especially at the prices go-go bars are charging these days.  If the boys are not in briefs in any of the go-go bars, then I'll go to a host bar where the drinks and off fees are a fraction of what the go-go bars are charging.

I'm sorry if some of the boys don't like it, but if they want my business they're going to have to earn it. 

[Report on Phuket]

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

It is a fee indeed. If it was tip some punter could have a good fuck and then leave boy with nothing or 10 baht  using exact sentence from your line " is a tip, then it's my decision how much the tip should be."

That is extremely rare, but I have actually witnessed that sort of thing happen.  Some may remember the Kaos go-go bar in Sunee Plaza - very long gone now.  I became friendly with one of the dancers, June.  A farang customer called him over to sit with him.  The farang spent the next hour publicly groping him to the point it was obvious June was embarrassed and humiliated.  Then the farang gave him a tip.  20 baht!  I was furious and I had seen this farang before, so he knew damned well how much Thai money is worth.  I went over and gave June 100 baht right in front of the farang and said I just gave him one fifth of what you should have given him.  The farang was completely unfazed.

A few days later I was back in the bar.  That farang was not there.  June told me that same farang made an arrangement for June to come to his room one afternoon.  June went.  When he got there and knocked on the door, the farang opened the door and told June he already has a boy inside, then he shut the door in June's face - not even giving him baht bus fare. 

That was the last time I ever saw or heard anything about that guy.  I hope somewhere along the way he did that to the wrong boy and got the shit beaten out of him, but I never saw him again.  I asked June why, knowing the kind of person this farang was, did he agree to go to the man's room.  He said he needed the money.

So yes, no question that people like that are out there.  Fortunately people like that are quite rare.  Even if the bar had told him how much he should tip, do you truly believe he would have complied?  I don't.  I think he would have done the same thing no matter what he was told and probably continued doing that wherever he went.

Again, fortunately that kind of behavior is extremely rare and does not happen often enough to change my personal opinion about tipping.  I have a feeling nobody reading this board would ever dream of treating a boy that way and probably has never seen anyone do that sort of thing.  But I cannot argue that it never happens, especially when I witnessed it myself.

[Report on Phuket]

3 hours ago, vinapu said:

Some punters may not have a clue and some may assume even that off fee includes boy  or girl service

I understand, but that's not my problem.  If the bar or boy has encountered such a problem, then they need to make it clear to the customer how it works.  No problem about that, but I have a big problem if the bar tries to dictate to me how much to give to the boy.  It's a different story if the customer asks the bar how much to give. 

If I am looking for something unusual, then I can understand the boy telling me how much he wants for it.  Then it's my choice whether or not to accept his price.  The boy telling me, not the bar.  I'm not interested in informing anyone other than the boy himself what I am looking for.  For sure I am not about to inform some mama-san unless I am looking for something so off-the-wall that the mama-san is likely to be able to tell me which boy would be willing.

In any case, if it really is a tip, then it's my decision how much the tip should be.  If I am told how much to give, then now it is no longer a tip, but a fee.

[Report on Phuket]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

At a restaurant the bill for your food and drinks already includes wages for all the staff.

Yes if the bill includes a service charge.  Just how much out that service charge ends up in your waiter's pocket - your guess is as good as mine.

I think it is still called a tip because that it what it was always called and what the English word for anything else might be is irrelevant.  But no matter what it is called I, for one, am not about to pay those kinds of prices.  I do believe in being generous with the boys, especially since the boys are the main reason many on these boards go to Thailand in the first place.  But as I said, my personal generosity is just that - generosity, not stupidity.  I'm not about to have a bar dictate to me how much I am expected to give to a boy.  That is between me and the boy.

I also don't know why people try to justify the much higher prices in Bangkok by saying it is much more expensive for these boys to live in Bangkok.  Is it?  Has anyone actually investigated how much it really does cost these boys to live in Bangkok compared to Pattaya or any other Thai go-go bar city or do people simply assume that because that is what has been posted for many years on these boards?  If living in Bangkok really is so much more expensive for the boys, when did that happen?  It wasn't that way years ago.

In any case, those of you willing to pay those prices, fine with me. 

[Report on Phuket]

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

Isn't that the point? What someone tips is their choice.

It would be if we were talking about actual tips.  But these "tip for boy" - are they truly tips?  I don't see it that way at all.  I see it as a demand for the minimum to give a boy, whether it ought to be called a tip or called something else.

Way back in yesteryear, these tips really were tips.  Now we still call it tips, but that is in name only.   From where I sit that's not what they are anymore.  I don't think we need to bother trying to find a different word or phrase for it.  We'll probably always call them tips.  But I think most of us realize they are in reality demands,  That can be negotiated, but since when does anyone negotiate true tips?

What I give to a waiter in a restaurant - that's a tip.  What I give to a delivery boy - that's a tip.  What I give to a boy I've taken off - that used to be a tip.  Now it is a minimum expected fee.

[Report on Phuket]

2 hours ago, 12is12 said:

Sorry guys; I lost u.

What's the claim here? That we shldnt pay more than 1000 for st?

Yes, that would be my claim.  I would not go higher than 1500 for short time and the boy would have to be quite spectacular to get me to give him that much.  I realize that many going to Thailand for a 1 or 2 week holiday are willing to spend more to get what they came for, but there are limits.  1500 would be mine.  That is speaking for myself.  If others are willing to pay more and have different limits, that's their decision.

As for me, if bars really are charging those kinds of prices and the boys want 1500+, they're going to have to offer much more and a lot better than the same as they've been offering for the last 20 years. 

 

"I never get lucky with sex.  For me, a threesome is jerking off with both hands."

-  Rodney Dangerfield

[Report on Phuket]

5 hours ago, 12is12 said:

Yes, at least 6 of the 7 were gays. Yes, offable. Fees: to the bar 1500; to the boy - negotiable, prbbly 1500-2000.

Am I reading this correctly?  They are charging 1500 just to take a boy off?  And then 1500-2000 for the boy after paying that fee?  In other words around 3000 baht for a short time off?  And that's after paying for drinks and "drink for boy"?  For me, that's not no, but hell no! 

The prices some of these bars, including Pattaya and Bangkok, are coming up with these days are unheard of and, in my opinion, just crazy.  Maybe some people are willing to pay those kinds of prices, but not me.

I'll stick with the apps.

[I'm addicted to massages]

11 hours ago, Shonen said:

Nothing wrong with discussing medical topics on the internet.

I agree.  Nothing wrong with discussing medical topics and sharing information.  But there is everything wrong with someone looking for us to provide a diagnosis and recommend treatment.  Like it or not, that is for a doctor, not us.

I'm sorry, but I think it is wrong to consider doctors to be the last resort.  For me, doctors are the first resort.  If you have something wrong, go to a doctor, not a message board.  If you have had bad results with one doctor, go to a different doctor.

 

"Nuthin' goes right for me.  I decided to try Viagra, but I accidentally dropped them all into the toilet.  Now the lid won't stay down."

-  Rodney Dangerfield

[Anal cancer]

1 hour ago, Shonen said:

The irony is you posted to him talking about Bad Boy Billy, not knowing that’s who you were talking to.

I don't know what makes you so sure he is Bad Boy Billy.  Monty's kitchen was common knowledge, so that doesn't prove anything.

I'm not really interested in proving who a troll really is.   Maybe he's Bad Boy Billy and maybe not.  The point is a troll is a troll no matter who he is and if the board gets rid of him, that's good riddance.

Bad Boy Billy or not, I did like some of his earlier topics and posts.  But when it became as obvious as this that we're dealing with a troll, the Rubicon had been crossed.

[Anal cancer]

7 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

What took you so long! Even yesterday:

Until yesterday I really had not yet read through all of his topics and posts.  That is what finally convinced me.  I tried to give the benefit of the doubt, but unfortunately now I can see there is no doubt.

The best way to deal with it is for everybody to refuse to respond or reply to any of his posts, no matter what he writes, and no matter how tempting it might be to write some sort of response.  Trolls want to see responses to their posts.  Deprive them of that and eventually they go away.

[Anal cancer]

I hate to say it, folks, but someone known to us only by screen name comes to a gay Thailand message board to seek medical advice from people he has never met and wouldn't know even they were sitting next to him?

Sorry, but I'm not buying it anymore.  You have a medical problem?  Go to a doctor.  Unless I miss my guess, none of us on this board are medical doctors.  And if any of us were, we would know better than to dole out medical advice on a message board to some guy who has not even gone for a proper diagnosis to a medical doctor.

Besides, all these diseases?  I'm no longer buying any of that either.  If you really do have these problems, what you need is a doctor, not us.  And if you really don't have these problems or are grossly exaggerating them, then you're a board troll and people would need to stop responding to any of your posts in any way, shape, or form. That's the best way to get rid of trolls - when whatever psychological need being a troll provides is suddenly no longer available.

Trolls post because they want responses.  When they stop getting any responses they eventually go away.

[I'm addicted to massages]

1 hour ago, NIrishGuy said:

 merely an observation that trolling about cancer (IMHO at least) as seems to the general thread of most of olddaddys posts of late 🙂

I agree.  Again, I have no problem about attacking the content of posts.  I too think those posts are inappropriate considering people who have had to deal with cancer - and that includes me.

My suggestion to Olddaddy - don't try to defend those posts.  Just stop it and move on to something else.

[I'm addicted to massages]

Gents, even if you are convinced Olddaddy is a troll, I hope posts on this board will not digress into personal attacks.  I have always been opposed to personal attacks.  Let Trump be the personal attacker - I hope nobody here wants to take a lesson from him.  Your decision of course, but in my opinion personal attacks demean a board.

There are many ways to get rid of trolls without resorting to those tactics.

[I'm addicted to massages]

13 minutes ago, NIrishGuy said:

I cant believe people still bite. But only me who thinks trolling about cancer is a tad to much......

I'm not ready to classify him as a troll just yet.  Even if he is a troll, at least he brings up interesting issues (at least I find them interesting) - most of the time.  I'll grant, though,  that he does seem like the type who likes to post for no reason other than just to "hear himself talk". 

[I'm addicted to massages]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

I'm trying to see the GP again urgently tommrrw before it spreads 

Whatever it turns out to be, let's hope it is not something serious and that you caught it in time.

If I were you I would not go to a GP.  I hope you have sense enough to see a good nephrologist at a good hospital.  I would not play around with something that might be serious.

[Are you sociable ?]

3 minutes ago, vinapu said:

Where washroom is? 

I forgot.  Usually that is my first stop.  I meant after that . . .

[Are you sociable ?]

I doubt anyone who ever met me would classify me as an introvert, but when I go out to the bars (which is very rare these days) sorry, but I ain't there to socialize with farang - unless I went with friends.  I've had had nice conversations with farang in the bars when the moment was right, but it just happened.  I wasn't looking for that.

I'll let you gents guess for yourselves what I was looking for . . .

[When not to go to the police]

20 hours ago, BiggusDikkus said:

I thought the clubs that stay open after closing time are allowed to do so because they pay off the police?

I doubt that, although there is still no shortage of corruption.  But even if that is true, apparently they're not paying enough to the right people because these raids are happening and people, including farang, are getting arrested.  That is in Pattaya.  I don't know about elsewhere in Thailand.

As for extending the opening hours, that is still in the proposal stage.  As of the time of this post, nothing has been decided.

In any case, if a bar is open during illegal hours, the customers - even farang customers - get arrested too. 

The police have been going around checking farang passports too.  Make sure you have a good copy of the main page and latest visa page with you or good photos of those on your smartphone.

I don't know the consequences if farang get caught up in any of these raids or passport checks.  My guess is that's at the whim of whoever is in charge.  I, for one, do not intend to find out the answer the hard way.  I don't want to end up on a police or immigration shit list, no matter how minor it may be.

I think the safest thing to do is, if you want to continue a good time beyond legal closing hours, take off a boy or two - or three - and continue in your hotel room or a short time room somewhere.  Neither of those have closing hours - and no restrictions on what they're wearing either.  Come to think of it, while it may be more expensive, that might beat hell out of sitting around in a bar in the first place . . .

[When not to go to the police]

Also a photocopy of your passport's main page and visa page is almost always acceptable.  Of course you can carry your actual passport, but most people don't want to do that.  Still, technically by law you must always have your passport on your person.

I would say the risk of being checked at all as long as you are in whatever venue during legal operating hours, the odds are you won't be checked. 

It is your responsibility to know the legal opening and closing hours.  Keep yourself within legal limits and you should be fine.

[Phrases every visitor in Thailand should know]

14 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

Please, never say this. Really there is no need.

I agree.  Find some other way to express your displeasure about something - and be careful how you do that too.  It will especially be frowned upon if a farang says it, and any Thai who overhears it also won't appreciate it.  And there have been many incidents when the "unappreciation" directed at a farang lands the farang in a hospital.

In Thailand one of the worst mistakes a farang can make is getting angry and/or arguing.  Neither will get you anywhere and the only outcome will be negative - for the farang.  If it is something serious, call the police.  They don't want any trouble harming the "good image" of Pattaya or anywhere else in Thailand.  But whatever it is, get yourself out of the situation as gracefully as possible.  You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Believe me, once you lose self control, now you've lost all control.

[Phrases every visitor in Thailand should know]

2 hours ago, scott456 said:

I like to know how to say "fuck you" in Thai.

E hah! - Be very careful how you use it and who it is directed at.  The recipient is unlikely to take it lightly or think it's funny.

Don't confuse that with Yee haw.  Yee haw means brand name

Just out of curiosity, why did you want to know that one?

[Phrases every visitor in Thailand should know]

Do you want to know the best way to learn Thai?  Listen - and listen very carefully.  Forget about phrase books.  And make sure to get the tones right. Often if you don't say the word with the correct tone, they don't understand what you are trying to say.  The tone is just as important as the word itself.

[Cabinet agrees to let foreigners buy land and houses in Thailand]

The proposal has been withdrawn, but unless you are independently wealthy you wouldn't have been eligible anyway.

The one issue that remains, and I think has a good chance of approval, is increasing the maximum time for rental contract validity from 30 years to 50 years.  I think many of us who are getting on in years would prefer to rent rather than buy at this stage of the game.  I know renting is my preference.