[Why this Thai boy was offended?]

4 hours ago, reader said:

However, I don't believe that there's a vast conspiracy of mb's out there who are intent on fleecing us of out all our worth.

Neither do I.  You're greatly exaggerating what I'm trying to say.  All I'm trying to convey is it is very easy to fall into the trap, even if that is not at all what the boy intended, so be careful and use common sense.  For me it is not a question of what I believe.  It is a question of what I see, what I'm told, and what I know has happened between many farang and boys.  I'm talking about money boys.  What do you think a money boy is after? 

I am perfectly well aware that most farang go to Thailand, have a great time, and nothing goes wrong during their stay and after they return home.  But enough of it does happen that it is easy to lose sight of reality.  Over the years I've seen too much.  As I said, believe whatever you want, but I'm telling you I know what I'm talking about.  Enjoy your time in Thailand with the boys, but remember - you stand warned.

[Why this Thai boy was offended?]

1 hour ago, reader said:

It doesn't necessarily have to be a sinister plot to coerce money out of us, does it?

Yes, it does.  That is exactly what is going on.   I wouldn't go as far as calling it sinister or calling it a plot, but with all I've seen, heard, and personally experienced over the years, I'm convinced the vast majority of the money boys are trying to do just that - and I don't blame them.  You know why?  Because too many farang treat them as if they are nothing more than sex machines, make empty promises, screw over the boys, and generally treat them as if they and their lives mean nothing.  Many make no effort whatsoever to understand anything at all about their lives and culture.  It's just give me my happy ending massage and here's the smallest amount I can get away with tipping you.  Nearly all the money boys I've known over the years have stories about being treated like that - more often than not. 

If you've been on these boards long enough, you probably have seen that for yourself - farang trying to figure out the cheapest they can get away with giving to these boys.

Just today one of the boys was telling me what happened to him a few days go.  He advertises himself on some of the apps as a massage boy.  That's all he does and he'll say so.  He'll give a good massage and a happy ending, but no fucking.  Meanwhile, he says, most of the farang trying to make an arrangement with him make it clear they want to fuck him.  He turns them down.  But just a few days ago one customer said he understood and won't try to go beyond his limits.  The boy went to the farang's place, started the massage, and shortly into it the farang wanted to fuck him.  The boy reminded him of what the agreement was.  The farang gave him a couple hundred baht and told him harshly to get out.  He'll find another boy who will do what he wants.

Have you any idea of how many similar stories I've heard over the years?  Most are much worse.  You can label it a "sinister plot" if you want to, but I see it much differently.

So, I stand by exactly what I have already posted on this topic.  Nobody has to agree with me, but I'm in a position to know more about it than most on these boards.  I see it as I see it.  If anyone doesn't want to believe me, fine with me - believe whatever you want.

[Social anxiety]

41 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

Money boys?🤔

You got it right the first time . . .

[Social anxiety]

On 8/22/2022 at 11:22 AM, Olddaddy said:

And that's called social anxiety.

Can't it simply be choice?  I'm no introvert and if I go out to the bars, believe me I'll be very happy to talk to anyone who wants to talk with me.  While I don't wear a badge that says "I'm Gaybutton" sometimes people recognize me and want to talk, and I'm glad to talk all night if they want to,  But frankly I'm not looking for that.  I'm not going to the bars to have a conversation with farang.  If I'm looking to mingle and have a conversation at the bars, guess who I'm going to do that with . . .

[Why this Thai boy was offended?]

2 minutes ago, Min said:

I just wanted to know if I did anything wrong

The only thing you did wrong was thinking you did something wrong.  You did nothing wrong at all.

You make a good point about trying to joke with them, at least until you know the kinds of things they think are funny and the kinds of jokes they just don't get.  Rodney Dangerfield would be a total flop in Thailand.  And don't take it personally or feel insulted if a boy calls you old or fat or bald.  That's one of their ideas of humor and they mean nothing by it.  Understanding their sense of humor takes time.  For example, if a boy calls me fat, I just laugh and tell him I'm not fat.  I'm having a baby.  That's the kind of thing they think is hilarious.

[Why this Thai boy was offended?]

5 hours ago, reader said:

We hung on any news of declining covid cases; any indication that the country may open up again. Now we find ourselves warning each other about the snares waiting to entrap us in Thailand.

 

No argument there.  I'm writing from the perspective of someone who lives in Pattaya, so even during Covid I didn't have to be worried whether Thailand was opening soon or not.  Lucky me . . .

[Why this Thai boy was offended?]

14 minutes ago, Boy69 said:

 many of them have boyfriend/girlfriend/married and their partners don't allow long term relationships with farangs anyway. 

Unless the farang is handing over a lot of money.  Then it's "What are you doing home?  The farang is waiting.  Go on, go, go go!  And don't forget to remind him that I'm your sister, not your wife . . ."

[Why this Thai boy was offended?]

5 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

I had a real world example of this recently.

I'm not surprised.  As I said, I've seen this tactic time after time over the years.  Your story and Min's story are merely the two latest.

The most vulnerable farang are the first-timers and those who don't read these boards.  They go to Thailand, go to the bars for the first time, are overwhelmed that a young, good looking boy seems very interested in him, is very affectionate with him, and gives him a sexual experience like he's never had before in his life.

The farang victim is convinced the boy has fallen in love with him, so now he falls in love with the boy.  The trap has been sprung.  He treats the boy like a king while he is in Thailand and promises to financially support him after he goes back to his home country. Once he's returned home, that's when the pleas for money start.  Usually it's small amounts at first and not too often.  Then the boy comes up with more and more reasons why he needs more and more money, more and more often.  No matter how much you give him, it's never enough.  It continues until the farang just can't do it anymore.  Relationship over.  The farang is heartbroken, but the boy simply moves on to his next target if he hasn't been doing that since the moment you left.

I have a feeling more than one person reading this has had exactly that happen to him and is either still in the middle of it or has learned the hard way what truly has been going on.

I remember years ago a friend from Scotland came to Pattaya.  He met a bar boy and fell for it.  He was in love.  He forgot that nobody really falls in love that quickly and no bar boy is going to fall truly in love with a farang customer in such a short time.   Sometimes people forget - a real relationship develops over time.  Falling in true love in just a few days is fine for the movies, but in real life it doesn't work that way.

There, of course, have been exceptions, but few and far between.  I was with them the day my friend left to return to Scotland.  He was staying at the Ambiance in Pattaya.  The boy was there too while my friend was waiting for the taxi to the airport arrived.  He wanted to give the boy a lot of money to go to a language school for English lessons.  I tried to talk him out of it, but failed.  I got him to at least give me the money and let me directly pay the language school.  He agreed to that and the boy acted very excited about being able to learn English.  Meanwhile, when the taxi arrived my friend and the boy had a tearful farewell.  Then the farang got into the taxi.  No sooner than the taxi rounded the corner at Second road the boy tried to get me to give him the money.  Of course I refused.  A day or two later I took him to the language school, paid the school for his lesson program, and that was that.  A few weeks later I received an Email from my friend asking me to check with the language school about the boy's progress.  It turned out that the boy did go - for a grand total of one lesson.  Then he told some story to the school, got them to refund the money, and disappeared from Pattaya.  I never saw him again.  And I'm the one who had to break that news to my friend.  He doesn't go to Thailand at all any more.

There are so many stories.  Another of my favorites was the boy who carried around 5 mobile phones,  5 different farang.

Another one - Maybe some of you remember the lady-boy manager at Corner Bar.  He was getting financial support from 2 different farang.  Then his nightmare happened.  Both of the farang showed up at the same time for a 2 week holiday.  I don't know how he managed to successfully pull it off, but he juggled things around and got away with it.  Neither farang had any idea of the existence of the other one. (I hope neither of those farang are reading this . . .)

In other words, be careful.  Think with your head, not your crotch.  And do not - repeat: do not make any promises.  The safest thing to do with the boy of your dreams is to enjoy every moment with him, but whatever you do, don't give him your contact information, especially not your Email address.  When it is time for you to go home, give him a very generous tip, thank him for a fabulous holiday, and goodbye.  Anything more than that and you too could easily fall into the trap.  If he does manage to contact you - maybe via LINE or an app - just ignore it or block him.  Do NOT respond.  He'll stop once he realizes he's not going to get any money out of you.

One of my favorite "make me cringe" things I hear farang say - "Not this boy.  He's different."  Yeah, right.

This is a good time to once again post my all time favorite quote - The Richard Burk Philosophy:

"If you want love in Thailand, rent it."

[Why this Thai boy was offended?]

Here's my opinion:

You know how much attention I would pay to this?  None.  Zero.  Nada.  And the last thing you should do is be reluctant to go right back to that bar.  I would sit down as usual where you normally sit.  If he approaches and wants to talk, that's fine.  I would greet him with a smile and a nice hello.  I would talk as if this non-incident never happened.  If it is brought up, let him be the one who brings it up.  Tell him you never meant any offense and he misunderstood what you meant - and then take it from there.  For sure you don't need to walk on eggs to talk to him.

I doubt he was actually offended at all.  I've seen this same kind of manipulation tactic used by boys many times over the years.  I've had some of them try it on me too.  It's all a part of trying to get what's in your wallet moved into his.  And on you it seems to be working.  He's got you feeling guilty and wondering what you did wrong or what you could have said differently.  In other words, now he's got the control.  Don't let him have it.  Don't let him put you on the defensive.  Don't worry about whether you have offended him.  Let him be the one who has to worry about whether he has offended you.

If you are interested in him, fine.  If not, I'd give him nothing more than a polite nod and move right to a boy who does interest you.

["Tourists don’t come to Thailand for nightlife but for beaches and temples"]

I wonder if this doctor has ever even met any farang if he comes up with an absurdity like that.  Even if he's right, beaches and temple visits are during the day.  What does he think people do at night, sit in their hotel rooms watching Thai movies?

[Recommended tailors]

How about Pattaya?  I could use some shirts, but my usual tailor is no longer in business.  Any recommendations for good tailors that are currently open?

[A boyfriend?]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:49 AM, scott456 said:

I am more interested in the caring and dying processes of old farangs in Thailand.  Did Richard get good care before he died? Or was it a sudden death?

Richard's death wasn't sudden.  His health had been going downhill for months.  I last saw him at a Christmas dinner a few months before and he looked in bad shape even then.  He did have some of his former employees helping him and a few friends looking in on him.  As far as I know he never went to a hospital.  He had no insurance and very little money.  He died in his condo.  Sadly, Richard died essentially broke.

If you are interested, Richard's Facebook page still exists:  https://www.facebook.com/richard.burk.351

Thailand does have very good assisted living facilities.  Including room, meals, and care they average around 45,000 baht per month.  Not bad considering at current exchange rates that amounts to a little less that US $1300 per month - and these are very nice places, not dumps.

A couple things I do know about dying in Thailand - If you die in hospital, no autopsy is required.  If you die anywhere else, an autopsy is required.  No matter where you die in Thailand, it is my understanding these autopsies are done only in Bangkok.

Also, hospitals do offer living wills.  You can designate a surrogate to make medical decisions for you if you become incompetent to do so.  You can also specify DNR options and organ donor options.

I once asked the American Embassy what their involvement is if an American dies.  I was told the first thing they do is find your passport.  They notify your nearest living relative.  They check to see if you have a will.  They have to sign off on releasing your body for funeral, shipping back to home country, or whatever your will and family specify.  Any other involvement is on an "if necessary" case by case basis.

As for what happens when a farang dies in Thailand, you might be interested in this article:

https://thepattayanews.com/2022/08/16/special-feature-one-a-day-part-one-what-happens-when-a-foreigner-dies-in-thailand/

[A boyfriend?]

17 hours ago, Gaybutton said:

The correct version is:  "If you want love in Thailand, rent it."

As long as I'm making corrections and updating, yes it was Richard Burk who said that to me many years ago.  Over the years I have repeated it many times on many topics.

He was the owner of the Amor restaurant in Boyztown.  After 16 years the restaurant eventually failed.  The owner of the New Orleans restaurant, also well known in Boyztown, took over the location and converted it to a deli which he named Street Life.  I never understood his rationale for that name, nevertheless at the time it was the only one of its kind in Pattaya.  Richard did not own it.  He was there as the manager.

Street Life eventually failed too and Richard ended up going from job to job as restaurant manager in various locations.  His final one was at Coco's restaurant on Soi Chaiyapruek - and that one eventually failed too.

Richard had a very difficult time of it after Street Life failed, but one thing I always admired him for - he was a fighter.  Despite all of his troubles he never gave up.

I think those of us who have been in Pattaya long enough, whether they liked him or not, well remember Richard.  He was quite a character.

Richard died in March, 2017.

 

[A boyfriend?]

The correct version is:  "If you want love in Thailand, rent it."

[Why not retire to Thailand?]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

up jumped a older farang that demanded I stopped taking them

I suppose he must have thought you were the only person with a camera taking photos that day.  And he also must have supposed you intended to publish the pictures on the internet. 

Anger and making demands are the wrong reactions.  If he explained his situation a politely asked that you delete any photos that include him, he might have gotten somewhere.  But anger and demands coming from someone you've never met or heard of - that kind of person gets no sympathy from me.

I believe your story because I've seen it happen before, more than once, when someone becomes irate if he thinks his face might show up in  photo where his face isn't supposed to be. 

In any case, that's his problem, not yours.  If someone is truly worried about showing up in a photo and the wrong person might spot it, then he shouldn't be at that location or he can wear a mask or otherwise disguise himself.

No matter what reason a person might not want to be photographed, in this day and age virtually everybody has cameras on their phones and they use them.  It is useless to get upset with one photographer unless he is stalking you like paparazzi.

The reality is if you want to be absolutely sure not to be photographed at certain locations or circumstances, then don't put yourself at those locations and circumstances.  That's the only way I know of.

[About massage happy ending]

2 minutes ago, sydneyboy1 said:

Bill Clinton didn’t think oral was sex.😂

And he didn't inhale either . . .

[About massage happy ending]

Vinapu is right.  No matter what "service" you want, even if it is hardly anything at all, you still will be expected to give the boy at least the minimum tip.  After all, whatever you want is not something he decided.  You're the one making that decision.  He is providing what you ask for.

Don't forget, you're spending a great deal of money just getting to Thailand.  You're probably going to stay in a good hotel, eat in good restaurants, and have plenty of drinks.  So, don't try to save money by being less than generous with the boys.  After all, most likely the boys are the main reason you're going to Thailand in the first place.  If the boy is giving you what you ask for and doing a good job of it, I suggest tipping beyond the minimum, even if what you ask for is minimal in itself.  And if you do that, he will be genuinely happy to see you if you return and will do even better than the first time - and that beats hell out of him thinking "Oh no, him again!"

[Flying Business, economy or first class]

Are you familiar with Seat Guru?  You might want to check that site when trying to decide where you want to sit.

https://www.seatguru.com

[Suggestions for 24hr whirlwind of Pattaya]

8 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

How much would you expect to pay for motorbike taxi Jomtien to Boyztown? And Grab taxi? 

For a Grab or Bolt ride, I have no idea.  Since I have my own car I have never used them.  

The motorbike taxi will probably be between 20-80 baht (I don't think anyone needs me to tell them farang are going to be charged more than the boys pay), depending on what the boy negotiates with the driver.  It should not be more than 100 baht.  From Jomtien, boys are charged between 100-150 baht for a motorbike taxi ride all the way out to my home, which is more than 5km from Jomtien.  They have never been charged any more than that, so a ride from Jomtien back to Boyztown, if that's where he is going, will definitely be under 100 baht. 

Of course he might not be going back to Boyztown at all.  He might be going back to his room, and the boy's room could be anywhere.  He might work in Boyztown, but his room might not be anywhere near there.

I would simply ask him how much a motorbike taxi will cost.  He'll know and will probably be honest about it.  No matter where he is going in Pattaya, it should not exceed 150 baht.

[Suggestions for 24hr whirlwind of Pattaya]

6 hours ago, Slut1215 said:

Normally in the evening how’s the commute like by car? Is Pattaya like BKK in terms of traffic jams?

There are a lot of variables involved in answering that.  It mainly depends on the time of year.  During high season traffic often can get just as bad as Bangkok.  But right now we're in the middle of low season.  Except for rush hour the traffic is usually rather light and flows smoothly.  The later the hour, the less the traffic. 

For example, I live on "The Dark Side", meaning the east side of Sukhumvit - technically not in Pattaya at all.  If you're not familiar, Sukhumvit is the main highway through Pattaya.  Pattaya begins and ends on the west side of Sukhumvit.  If you cross Sukhumvit, you've just exited Pattaya.  The name of my area is Nong Prue.  If I'm going to Jomtien from my place, right now the drive usually takes about 15 or 20 minutes.  During high season the exact same commute will usually take a minimum of 45 minutes, and often even longer than that.  But returning home is hardly ever more than 15 minutes because by that time most of the traffic has cleared and not much traffic is headed out my way in the first place.

If you're bringing a boy from Boyztown to Jomtien, then you most likely will be with him during the commute.  So, I would recommend going by baht bus or a Grab car.  Depending on traffic and where you're staying in Jomtien, the ride should take no more than ten or 15 minutes.  But when it's time for him to go back, you're probably not going with him.  Give him money enough for a motorbike taxi, which is much quicker and probably no waiting.  He'll appreciate that.

Of course, if he turns out to be a dud who won't live up to whatever he agreed to do, let him wait for a baht bus . . .

[Why not retire to Thailand?]

13 hours ago, Londoner said:

Good point; I'd be interested to know how many retirees have learnt enough Thai to function in rural areas? or whether the thinking is "why bother?"

The answer is both.  It depends on how and why you would be in a rural area.  After living in Thailand as long as I have, I can tell you the more Thai you learn to speak the better off you'll be.  The ability to speak Thai usually is not absolutely imperative when traveling to a rural area, even if you are traveling alone, but it certainly helps.  You might be surprised by how many people, even in those areas, who can speak at least a little bit of English.  Think about the bar boys who speak enough English to get by.  Where do you think they got it?

I think I speak Thai quite well.  When I travel to a rural area I don't have any problems communicating.  I can speak it well enough and I can understand it well enough.  But I've never even tried to learn to read it.  I've never found it necessary.  Almost everywhere signs and even restaurant menus are in both Thai and English. 

Most of the time if I travel to a rural area it is with a boy.  No problem communicating with him, but if we're visiting family and/or friends, without the ability to speak a good amount of Thai you won't be able to communicate very much with them.  You certainly won't be able to participate in conversations and you'll spend much of the time feeling left out.  You know why?  Because you'll be left out.

If you're retiring in Thailand, but don't plan to live in a major city, I would definitely advise spending much of at least your first year attending Thai language classes or hiring a good tutor.  You'll learn enough of the basics to be able to pick up a vast amount of the language on your own.  Just as important, don't forget that Thai is a tonal language.  You'll need to work on getting the tones right.  A lot of farang have a quite a bit of trouble with the tones, but without getting them right many Thais won't understand what you're trying to say.  I can't stress strongly enough how important it is.  And remember that most of the time if the word is more than one syllable, the emphasis is usually on the last syllable. 

Even if you're going to live in a major city, I would still advise language lessons.  The more Thai you can speak and understand the easier life will be and the more meaningful life will be.  I know several farang who retired to Thailand, but eventually gave up and went back to wherever they came from mainly because of the language barrier.  They never made a good effort to learn the language.  If it is going to be a few years before you retire to Thailand, I would recommend starting Thai language lessons wherever you are.  The more you know even before retiring the better off you'll be.  The same, by the way, goes even if you only travel to Thailand for holidays.  The more you know, the better.

[Why not retire to Thailand?]

Do you realize the entire focus of your post is about the gay scene, bars, and boys?  Is that, and only that, what you will be looking for under retirement?

[Is it just me? Am I too old?]

29 minutes ago, Olddaddy said:

I'm really getting depressed about it .

Don't be.  Wrong reaction and wrong emotion.  It can happen to anyone.  That's your body telling you to give yourself a rest before you wear yourself out completely.  I know most who come here for a holiday think they're missing out on something if they don't have sex every day - especially if they rarely get any back home.  But that's nonsense. 

I think sex and boys should be thought of as a part of your holiday, but not the entire focus.  There are plenty of other things to see and do when it's just not the right moment for bars and boys.  Try a legitimate Thai massage.  Try a genuine foot massage.  Go sightseeing.  Go shopping.  Try an out of the way, unfamiliar restaurant.  Take a seat at a good location and spend some time just people watching - and don't be surprised if a young gent approaches you - and he might not even be a money boy.

We all slow down as we age.  You need to accept that as reality.  If you need a rest once in a while, don't get depressed about it.  Merely find something else to do that day and by the next day you'll probably be ok again and raring to go.

[Bread Machines and Coffee Makers in Thailand: Where and How Much?]

I recently replaced my aging bread machine.  It was about 15 years old.  It still worked, but it was time for it to retire.  I ended up giving it to my dog's trainer.

I spent time researching the various machines.  I decided on the Biolomix bread maker, one of the best ones out there.

The price variations for it are hard to believe.  I found the best deal for it on Shopee.  I've seen it advertised for between 15000 to 34000 baht - for the exact same machine.

Here is the one I bought from Shopee:  https://shopee.co.th/product/445990429/17937240833

2680 baht for the very same machine!  Incredible.  I've been using it now for about two months and it works perfectly.  And the instruction booklet that comes with it is entirely in English.  I received it 2 days after placing my order.

If you're looking for a bread machine in Thailand, this is my recommendation for the one to get.  If you click on the link and scroll down you will find a comment posted on the Product Rating.  Guess who wrote it - and I meant every word of it.  Ever since buying it, the only time I ever buy bread anymore is if I want baguettes.  I've tried several times to make baguettes myself, but they never come out right.  Oh well, I can't compete with Julia Child.

If you don't live in Thailand, shop around for it.  There is no reason to pay tens of thousands of baht when you can find it at the same price I did.  Believe me, it is the exact same machine.

[How much to tip boy next to you]

12 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

IMHO, you suck the boy, a minimum of 1,000 baht.

My opinion:  If the boy initiated it -500 baht

If you initiated it, I agree with TotallyOz - minimum of 1000 baht, emphasis on minimum, especially if he reciprocated. 

That's my recommendation for Pattaya.  Bangkok, you would probably be expected to pay at least 500 baht more.

Also, I forget where I read it - I think it was a z909 post - saying there is nothing wrong with negotiating the price, even sitting right there.  I agree.  Some might feel awkward about it, but I think one would end up feeling a whole lot more awkward if you are planning to tip 500 and the boy is expecting 2000.  So, this is where "business before pleasure" comes in.