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THE FINAL DAYS Spoiler, or TLDR: things with Tao end on a sour note, but the silver lining in the cloud is that I meet someone else. My time in Pattaya turned out to be less active than I’d hoped, though maybe that’s not a bad thing for a vacation. Grand plans to visit the Truth temple and an elephant sanctuary, or maybe take in a Muay Thai match, do not work out; I even miss Jomtien and Walking Street. (The latter looked like a real circus from afar, not in a good way.) Did quite a bit of strolling up and down Pattaya Beach, though, which is a gorgeous thing to do at the golden hour. Also managed to get a little shopping done. The last couple of days were lazy ones. On Sunday, I sleep in. Staggered up at 9.30 a.m. to make it for the last stretch of the breakfast buffet, and faffed around a little – to use a friend’s preferred way of describing what one does when one does absolutely nothing productive – then returned to bed. Later in the aft, I decide I’ll try to get lucky again on Grindr with an in-call massage. I stumble onto Ken, a muscle boy who looks to be in his mid to late 30s. After a bit of back and forth and a number of repeated excuses, it becomes clear that he does not take clients in the day, for some reason or other. (He tells me he does massage work full-time, so it can’t be other work commitments. Maybe it’s a hangover.) In any case, he agrees to an 8.30 pm session at my hotel, then proceeds to show up 20 mins *ahead* of time. He’s not quite as muscled as in his pics and videos, but seems as if he still has some goods to show, so I decide to keep the session. In my room, after he takes his clothes off, I like what I see. Plus he’s wearing a red g-string, and there’s nothing I like better than skimpy undies on a built guy. The massage is decent – not great – but as least he didn’t rush through it to get to the finish. All good, in my book. I have a date with Tao, from the previous night at Dream Boys. Of course, when I show up at 10.30 p.m., he’s not around. “He no come”, the puzzled mama, Nonni, tells me. I’m disappointed and annoyed, but figure that this is boy bar culture – promises and punctuality are not prized goods. In any case, there’s the show at X-Boys across the street, and Nonni insists on coming with me and having me buy her a drink. I rather enjoy her good nature and love of fun, so it’s a green light. The show today is a diluted version of Saturday’s performance, and the crowd is also noticeably sparser. I end up ordering a bottle of Thai whiskey – Sansom, one of the cheapest on the menu – so naturally our table becomes the centre of the action. Nonni departs periodically for DB, and after an hour or so, as the performance is winding down and I’m wondering if I want to off one of the cuter faces on stage, lo and behold, Tao shows up, clad in his civvies. Clearly Nonni had worked her magic (or used her whip). I’m well, buoyantly pleased, to put it mildly. We return to DB, where the party continues. I buy another bottle of Sansom, and a good time is had by all. A group of us head out for supper at the braised duck eatery next door, and by the time Tao and I stumble back to my hotel I’m good and soused. Strangely, Tao turns out to *actually* be straight, or at least closer to the heterosexual end of the spectrum. He asks to watch some straight porn to get off, but is nonetheless very willing to cuddle and be affectionate. He also gifts me a little statuette of a monk as a souvenir, to which he wai-s when he takes his leave of it. It is one of the most personal presents I’ve received. My last full day in Pats is spent on a lousy hangover. Gone are the days when a night of binge-drinking will do little to me .. It’s another day of naps and faffing around, and then I unfortunately have to take a work meeting in the mid-aft. On my daily pre-dinner stroll along Beach Rd. I stumble onto the Fat Coco Seafood Club at the ship-shaped A1 Royal Cruise Hotel. The décor is tiki-tiki meets Miami Beach – lots of thatch and rattan and neon signage – and a real f**king hoot. I like the vibes enormously, so decide to splurge and order a crab omelette and a large plate of river prawns steamed with soy sauce and garlic. The omelette is a little too greasy for my taste, but the prawns are dee-lee-cious, and come with a fabulous green chili and lime dip. It’s hard to go wrong with seafood when it’s fresh and simply prepared. After dinner, Tao messages to ask if I want to spend some time with him later, when he’s at the bar. I’m thrilled, of course. I’m thinking that, yes, we can take it easy and maybe take a stroll on the beach (his suggestion), but, as most such narratives go, the protagonist is clearly being set up for a letdown. Tao proves to be a no-show, unsurprisingly. I sit at DB for 40 minutes that evening, chatting with Nonni and her fellow mama-san. When he eventually texts to say that “I busy”, but that he needs money, my patience has been quite abraded. I take off to X-Boys to watch the show – for the third night in a row – but am distracted by the constant messaging with Tao as he asks if I’m angry, if I can transfer some money to him, to say that he’s struggling and can he come to my room later (at 4 am!) etc. Nonni senses that I won’t be good company this evening, and seems a little uncomfortable. As I sit at the bar and think about the Buddhist notion of karma, I wonder where my interpersonal karmic balance with Tao now lies: in my favour (because he’s being such a user), or in his (his seemingly sincere gesture of a gift last night). I decide that his little statuette deserves, if nothing else, some cash at least, so I leave some with Nonni. I hope it’s of use to Tao, and that whatever issues he’s facing get sorted out. His unreliability with clients can’t possibly endear him to employers, and his prospects in this business may not be bright - I wonder if we’ll get to meet again, whether in this context or another altogether. As the show winds down, I spot a cute face from previous nights: a tall-ish guy in his late twenties perhaps, with full lips and floppy bangs. He’s gangly and slightly awkward as a performer, but that just adds to the charm. I take him – X-Boys’ off fee is 800 baht, higher than most – and head off back to the hotel, where, once again, it turns out that my gaydar is completely dysfunctional. Art (Utt?), despite the typical boy next door vibes, proves to be quite partial to male charms, and, in fact, within 20 minutes of being back in my room, we’re both done. That he rather enjoys my company is attested to by the fact that he hangs around afterward, and with the help of Google translate and his smattering of English, we manage to have a decently informative conversation, peppered with lots of kissing. It’s one of the sweetest encounters I’ve had on this trip, or in a long while, in fact. He comes from a rice-farming family in Isaan, and the shockingly calloused texture of his palms prompted my question about his background in the first place – he’s not the smoothest of the lot, as that upbringing suggests, but that just adds to the charm. When it’s time for him to leave, he tells me quite honestly that he’s hungry and off for supper, and that it’s his favourite chicken noodles he wants. Or, as he says it, with a rub of his washboard flat tummy, “chee-KEN noodles”. I’m just bowled over – by a boy mispronouncing chicken. My dotage has arrived. The next day, I send him 5 messages on Line, asking him to keep in touch. I leave for the airport in a bit, so am taking the little bit of free time I have to wrap up my report for you good folks. Wishing those who have plans in Thailand a productive time! (Looking at you, @jason1975.) May my little guy watch over us all in his meditative contemplation.

isn't this a story as old as the modeling industry?

Booking sites like Expedia provides a revenue management app to properties that lists under them. Logic is simple, if properties can maximise their pricing, then booking sites maximise their commission too. Booking sites are like the Mamasans of the hotel world 😜

Thank you for this. I have to admit, I'm neither terribly sensitive to energies, nor a believer in the supernatural and the like (perhaps the first explains the second), so the statuette seemed perfectly innocuous to me. I had it sitting next to my laptop as I worked. I have to say that, if indeed it came with more sinister intentions than just being a simple gift, it wasn't really working its supposed charms on me - if my feelings last night about its giver were any indication. I suppose my largesse was really a mixture of obligation (since I had been given a token of sentiment, or so I assumed) and some guilt (the money doesn't mean all that much to me, but it might to Tao), rather than ensnared affections. If anything, Art seemed to be the unwitting recipient of any magical love hexes that were happening .. That said, I did give the matter some thought, and came down in favour of your suggestion. What convinced me was reason, plain and simple: to be given such a gift by a bar boy on first acquaintance seems extremely unusual. In fact, it's the first time it's occurred to me, and that perhaps counts for something. I've been gifted presents by boys before, but they typically had some erotic dimension (such as a worn G-string); an object of mystical significance does seem odd, when I thought about it, especially from someone whose acquaintance i had just made ... Whether or not the gift came with strings attached, I decided that prudence was the best course of action here. I didn't want to bring the little guy with me on the plane, so I deposited him at the shrine next to my hotel, which honors a nine-headed naga. Next to the naga is a little spirit house, beautifully festooned with garlands of all colours, and little dancer figurines. I housed my ersatz pal there, and said a silent word to the spirit inhabiting the residence - if spirit it is - that I don't mean to intrude, but that it was best that my friend and I part ways. He needed a new home, and I would be most appreciative if the spirit in question could make some space for him. This solution doesn't involve the suggested temple or monk, but it was respectful. Thanks again for the pointer. It would not have occurred to me of my own accord, nor am I even sure if I buy all this, but discretion is the better part of valour, I'm sure.

Day 8 The problem with writing trip reports like this is the more that you write and reflect back on your experiences, the more the longing and temptation to go back becomes unbearable. With four "usable" days left in my trip (not counting the 12th one as its usually spent doing pre departure stuff), I decided to fuel the "non-red light" sector of the Bangkok economy. (Lol) Given the generous baggage allowance from the airline, I planned to max it out by doing an early Christmas shopping. First stop is back to my usual - Platinum mall. This place is a favourite not just for the bargains but I also find the selection interesting and it feels more "compact" than MBK i.e. more shops and selections per square metres. As this is not the main reason for my trip, I want to be as time efficient as possible! More experienced bargain hunters might say that the Pratunam Market is much better price-wise but I would rather pay a bit more for the convenience and air-conditioning. After 3 hours of walking and hauling items around, I decided that I had enough and made my way to the 5th floor for a quick foot massage. I sat there and spent the next few minutes just being thankful for this kind of experience. When the massage was over, the masseuse pointed at my bulky shopping haul saying something around asking for my permission. Long story short, the sweet auntie reorganised the content of each shopping bags moving them around which resulted to less bags and a more manageable haul. I was so touched with her gesture and let my tip reflect my appreciation. After dropping my stuff in the apartment, I rested a bit and browsed through Grindr over a cuppa. There are some interesting and potential meetups but I decided to soldier on and go to my spa appointment that I booked via app. Upon arriving there, I thought it Will be a good idea to soup up the package and add more from their menu. That took another 3 hours off my day (facial, massage, foot scrub, pedi). I marched out feeling rejuvenated and a few baht lighter. Dreamboys was tonight's destination. This will be my first time to visit since they moved to their new location. I'll say that this new location looks much better especially with the absence of that huge pillar in the middle of the stage. The place is quite full and I can see several tables with bottle service that the staff are focusing their attention to. This turn out to be positive as I was left to my own devices the whole time with no Mamasan pressuring me to make my selection and off a boy. Question: how do bottle service works and is it more cost effective? How much should I tip the guys who say with me helping to down the bottle? One guy caught my attention since he looks like a twink version of this cute Thai actor named Papang (photo below). I smiled and motioned that he come join me which he immediately did. We had a good conversation as he can speak English reasonably - He mentioned that he will be moving to Australia soon. He's very personable and attractive but for some reason, I can't feel any spark. So after handing him his tip, I made my way out not really knowing where to go next. Given my lack of direction, a tout from freshboys managed to get hold of me and dragged me inside without any resistance from my part. I sat on a corner and realised that they are more than halfway through their show - the bit where they have to hit the pole with their dick. The sound the pole makes always make me cringe and can only imagine how painful it could be. Or is there a trick? I looked around and cant seem to find Nam around. Maybe he's on leave? I also saw a group of really youngish looking female Asian customers intently watching the big cock show. When they left a little while later, I noticed that they went to the bar straight from the shopping mall. A couple of their large transparent shopping bags contains all sorts of stuffed toys and other fluffy cutesy items. What can I say? Cock aficionados do come in different shapes and forms! One guy approached me, introduced himself and asked if he can sit beside me. He's cute so I did not object and even offered to order a boy drink for him. The plot thickened when it turned out to be Nam serving the boy drink while playfully looking at me pretending to be heart broken. I continued chatting with my guy until it's time for him to do his stage rotations. Nam took this opportunity, sat beside me and with a hurt puppy look on his face asked "you don't like me anymore?" which I answered with a resounding "yes!" We both laughed it off and he took that as a signal to be clingy and have his hands wandering everywhere. At that point, I started to feel that I am enjoying the night. While variety is good, I think there's a certain degree of comfort that familiarity can bring. So when Nam popped the question "I go home with you tonight?" I happily smiled, nodded and minutes later, were out in the street making our way to my apartment.

That is not a gift, but a trap. That is a black magic object of the type that bar girls - and, less commonly, bar boys - use to trap a client into a long-term relationship for their benefit. Your "I decide that his little statuette deserves, if nothing else, some cash at least" statement suggests that it already seems to be doing its job. If you are still in Thailand, I suggest that you give it to a monk at the nearest temple. If you are already at the airport and flying to your home country (which is obvious enough, though it need not be named), give it to the Thai temple there, if they are willing to accept it. Either way, get rid of it respectfully. Don't just throw it away, but do get rid of it fast. That is not a good object. Everyone is free to believe and do what they will, of course, but it would be remiss of someone who has some awareness of these things to remain silent in a situation like this.

Like Omega, I wonder if the young men were led on about what they might get modeling career-wise if they consented. Even so, this feels a bit like an attempt to extract further money from the guys who apparently gave them "envelopes with thousands of dollars of cash". That's a pretty generous payscale in the world of sex work for attending a sex party.

Revenue management, it fluctuates....if demand drops, so will prices.....I can't imagine Tarntawan using that software....more likely a dartboard 😆

Cannot find a review here of this new place...so... SOL boy bar which is located in the premises previously occupied by Dream Boys , The latter are further along the soi. SOL is a on the ground floor , less than a minute from Fresh Boys near the mouth of Patpong, Suriwong entrance, Seems new furniture and decoration with tiered comfortable seating in front of a well lit stage. The show was ok. Nothing special but some of those in attendance seemed to enjoy it. The boys appeared to be mostly similar to those in Hot Male. Drinks @ 400 baht each, no idea the off fee. If you are in the area, no harm to check it out!

First let me say no one should be forced to have sex if they don't want to and drugging someone to sexually take advantage of them is beyond deplorable. With that said this BBC A&F expose leaves me with mixed thoughts. Rich and famous guys pay to have sex with sexy young frat boy type males and years later the Frat boys are just now trying to raise a stink. Even they are not sure they were drugged but still make a claim to such. They were told sex would be involved yet still went on their own accord and accepted the money. Some guys interviewed by the BBC admitted to past "commercial Sex". That would be defined as a male escort I believe. US Government may investigate as "sex trafficking" because they were paid to cross state or country boundaries for sex. As we know, lots of rich and non rich people pay both Female and Male for sex. So sleaze ball or just a guy with the means to have sex with sexy men that he would otherwise never have the chance with them. Well sex always sells and every gay guy and straight girl went crazy over the A&F models. So the BBC may as well try to cash in on it too. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-66889779 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66957726

Gogo bars in general? Montreal has a few. Certainly not with dozens of boys on the boytisserie and various shows. But more traditional strippers. These sorts of places have been dying off for a while now though given the advent of online sites like chaturbate and the boys scrolling at the top of this page.

Men (and sometimes women) have probably always used "manipulative" ways to get others to have sex with them. I'm sure my gardener has better things to do than take care of my garden. Am I "manipulative and shady" in paying him to do so? Wealthy (and less fortunate) men have been enticing women (and men) for years to get them to agree to intimacy. I found out several years ago that my biological father wasn't my legal father. My biological father, according to DNA records, enticed lots of women (we half-sibs had a large meeting at one point, without, of course, informing the children of his wife). I have but little doubt he probably fed his women some BS lines, but they were free to say no, and consented nonetheless. I was reading in Wikipedia about the formerly billionaire cryptoexchange dude Sam Bankman-Fried. Apparently: "According to former employees of FTX and Alameda, Bankman-Fried was romantically involved with co-worker and Alameda Research CEO Caroline Ellison, until their split around the time of the 2022 crypto crash when Caroline reportedly stopped talking to him...". People consent to sex all of the time based on hopes of love and/or riches, not all of which become fulfilled. The dictum of caveat emptor seems to apply. Obviously, it's not OK to threaten or drug someone into consenting, nor can someone consider a consent valid if the person has diminished capacity, such as a child or an intellectually impaired adult. However, I don't see any evidence that these models were threatened, drugged, or unduly coerced (it's ridiculously loose to say the promise of money is a coercion--we all agree to do things we wouldn't otherwise do for financial reasons). The model I quoted knew full well why he was invited to the Hamptons. Even if it were true that he was told he'd be thrown out the door if he didn't have sex with the owner (and I doubt it was), he certainly had a way to get back without a car. His ridiculous "but I didn't have a car" protestation to me just accentuates the silliness of his allegations. So, he regrets his decision to consent after the fact. So might my mother, had she known of her Don Juan's philandering. If we were to arrest everyone who "manipulated" another to consent to sex, probably half of the world would be in jail, and, well, we could solve the world overpopulation problem.

The young, handsome and virile men (not boys) willingly participated for personal gain and some now have buyers remorse. This reminds me, in some ways, of teenage altar boys who, for a period of years, returned time after time after time to let Priests give them blow jobs ... and did so for gifts ... only to at a later date claim abuse. There comes a point when acquiescence replaces seeming coercion. $$$. Modeling and acting casting couches for young men and women are legendary in those industries. Greed (financial or promises of career gain) can and oftentimes does eventually backfire. Earlier in life when I was more physically attractive 😁 I'd visit NYC and spent a lot of time at Rounds, during which times I was frequently invited to private (and declined invitations to) parties out on the Island. None though, to my knowledge, with AF models in attendance. 😒 I didn't accept the offers (in the era of HIV/AIDS), and one of these AF parties eluded me (damn!) (not that I was intriguing enough to be invited!).

It's like the argument over whose territory Preah Vihear is in. It's in the interest of the governments on both sides, because it gives them a pretext for some nationalistic sabre-rattling when they need to distract the population from something else they would prefer to hide.

... one who's prepared to "accidentally enter" the new terminal and miss a flight to find out what happens? Any volunteers?

Thanks for being a keen and close reader, Vin! It's the first time I'm documenting a trip in such detail, and, I have to say, it's been cathartic when it needed to be.

These stories always make me want to roll my eyes. 🙄 Do we have a bunch of men who want money to just fall on them because they're good-looking? This comes straight out of the article: "Barrett Pall, a former model turned life coach and activist, said he felt pressured into attending an event in the Hamptons in 2011. Then 22, he said he was recruited by an older model, who received a referral fee, to be his "replacement" for "some sort of sexual experience" with the couple. He said he felt obliged to comply as the older man had been supporting him financially and he felt indebted. Like the other men, he said initially he attended a "test run" with Mr Jacobson. Mr Pall said the older model told him that "you don't have to do anything you don't want to do" but suggested that "the further you go, the better", and alluded to career opportunities. When he arrived at the event, he said he felt under pressure to "perform". "How was I going to leave? I didn't have a car," he said. "I had a chaperone sitting and watching me."...". Well, sir, you were a grown man who knew exactly what "some sort of sexual experience" meant. If you consented, you may have done so financial reasons, but you were a consenting adult nonetheless. New flash: a lot of people wouldn't go to work if they weren't being paid either. You were not a child. You were not drugged. This was a Saturday afternoon, apparently. You didn't have a car? Poor baby. Maybe you could do what the vast majority of New Yorkers/Long Island residents do: take the Long Island Railroad if you were late in understanding what "some sort of sexual experience" meant. And he makes his living being a life coach now? Please.

The air conditioning at M Bar in Jomtien Complex has been fixed and it is now much more comfortable inside the bar. They also put a/c in the store room at the back of the bar so i suggested to M that it might be suitable for a short time room but i am fairly sure that M had already thought about that possibility😉

Nice gesture from Tao this figure (although not so according to what Department of A says above ) but at end of day as no-show I wouldn't be happy. In such cases I wouldn't be in rush to meet him again although I'm believer in giving second chances but not right away, no. Contrary to conventional wisdom I have rather good record with guys punctuality and learned if they are late there's overwhelming chance they don't show up at all or if they show they will be rushing things. Thank you for great report and glad to her your last off was memorable and trouble free.

I encountered this situation in Mexico multiple times. Mexicans proactively asked for tips upfront when they sense you are an American. Some of them even count the tips in front of you and give you a look (content or discontent look). But I have seen many times that Mexicans themselves didn't tip. I guess Americans are guilty for being Americans.

I made my life easy and adhere to simple system, 1hr, 1000 tip, 1.5 hr , 1500 tip. If minimum tip is lower than that I still pay according to my scale. If its higher then if I decide to go ahead , of course I pay whatever that tip is. If I like service , boy or both I like to force 200-500 extra on them , specially if I suspect I'd be looking for another visit. The same system in both BKK and Pattaya.

In the midst of my week-long Thailand jaunt at the moment, and so far, so so. It is the low season ... DAY 1 My flight got in past 5 p.m. on a weekday. Maybe because the Chinese hordes aren't back yet, a situation that looks about to change soon, clearing immigration at Suvarnabhumi took all of 5 minutes. Decided to train it into the city, rather than risk Bangkok traffic at this hour, and, of course, when I arrived in Silom - am putting up at the Quarter Silom, more on which later - it was coming down cats and dogs. There's good reason why September is the low season! Thank goodness I packed a brolly. An hour later, the rain still hadn't let up, and the stretch of the soi in front of the hotel was literally flooded. Waited a bit more, then headed out to one of the many dispensaries in the neighbourhood. Enjoyed its merchandise for a bit - many feature a smoking area for customers - and then hit the Patpong go-gos. It was not even 10 p.m. on a weekday, and still drizzling lightly at this point, so you can imagine that the place was pretty quiet. The papa from Hotmale dragged me up to its bar, but their boys, while fetching in an aspiring-Moonlight-model sort of way, were clad in red sweat pants. All very Abercrombie and Fitch if that's your thing, but it wasn't mine. I departed quickly. Across the way, the boys loitering outside of the new Sol bar seemed less than promising, so I skipped it in favour of an old favorite, Dream Boys, now housed in the second-floor digs where Lucky Boys used to be. Turns out, I was the only paying customer in the bar at that hour. The boys on stage were still "practicing", according to the papa, and doing so in white boxer shorts. It was a huge disappointment. Clearly, gone are the days when they would be prancing around in briefs and cowboy boots, pre-show .. The boys weren't bad-looking, but I recognized no one from even last year. They were just rotating around on the stage, with several trying to give me the eye, and that was it. I stayed for 15 minutes and drank my 500-baht bottle of Tiger, during which the stereo system gave out at one point 🙄, decided I wasn't interested in the company of a twink that evening, and took off. Patpong 2 was looking sad in the drizzle, so Tawan it was. (Also, being right next to the hotel helps.) Well ... things weren't much better there, unfortunately. Aside from one regular - short, well-built dude with tats all over, even on his thighs, and vaguely reminiscent of a chipmunk in the face department, whose name I don't know - it was a small sea of new faces. Even the guy I off-ed last year was not to be seen. The biggest surprise was the fact that they now boast twinks in the employee roster! It's the end of an era ... They had about 12 boys there that evening, of which about 3 were twinks, 2 serious bodybuilders (incld. aforementioned guy with tats), several jock-y types (i.e. not quite bodybuilders), and with the rest looking like they could stand to hit the gym with a little more regularity. I was fairly stoned at this point, so I just sat and there at Tawan for about an hour and a half, watching the boys parade through their rotations, and then the show. The cute Asian otter seated next to me - most likely Taiwanese - tried to strike up a conversation, but I was too out of it to hold up my end, so that attempt died a pretty quick death ... The show was as it always was, just watered down. The highlight came during the cum competition, when one guy, quite the gusher, sprayed his load right at colleagues seated beneath the stage. Hilarity and some mild indignation followed. I was interested in none of the boys on stage, but I most definitely was in the bouncer at the door - a tall, built, dark type, with a great face, and likely well into his 40s, which I later found out was indeed the case. He would pop in occasionally to show new customers to their seats, and I'd grin at him like a dog in the presence of a treat, hoping he'd take the hint - which he eventually did. I brought him next door back to mine, and got to know him a little better, in all senses of the phrase. We made plans for dinner a few days later. I got the munchies in a bad way after he left, and cleaned the snack bar out in my room. About the Quarter Silom: as with real estate, it's all location, location, location. It's set smack in the middle of Soi Tarntawan, between the gay massage joints like Prime and 19-teen on one side, and Tawan on the other. The Patpong go-gos are five minutes away. There're lots of eating options on the soi itself, including a branch of Mango Tree - the grub is way too sweet for me, a real hazard in Thailand - as well as several izakaya-type Japanese joints. You could, as I have been doing, take forty-step stroll out for a massage in the late morning, have lunch, head back for a nap and maybe a puff and a swim, and then hit the bars. Frankly, this is the only reason to consider the Quarter Silom. (That, and the fact the their rooms come with a microwave oven, if that's a bonus.) The hotel may be barely two years old - I think - but already it's towels are looking pretty threadbare, for one. Walls are thin in this building, so you hear quite a bit of what happens in the corridor. (Thank goodness there are no families with small children, or at least I haven't seen or worse, heard any.) The staff are also, well, nonchalant, I guess, is the polite term for it, but being left alone is a plus for some folks, so whatever floats your boat. I paid a bit more than 2,200 baht a night, all in, so maybe I can't complain. TBC.

On my last trip the trouble I ran into was 202 not having a menu or a price list for drinks or food. So for a few days I went in and didn't spend a dime extra for a drink or food. I posted here about it and the next night when I went in they had a price list...

Google translate seems to work OK enough. I don't think I'd want to carry around yet another device. I can't stand that guy so I will have a hard time watching this video. 🙂

the latest update according to Thai Enquirer is 2 dead (a Chinese national and a Myanmar national) and 5 wounded The suspect is a student at a private school in Phaya Thai.

From Pattaya News By Adam Judd In Buriram province the construction of a temple complex at Wat Phu Man Fah is enkindling a subtle, yet potent diplomatic controversy with neighboring Cambodia. Accusations that the temple seeks to replicate the revered Angkor Wat have placed both nations on a cautious path, seeking to preserve their cultural heritage and bilateral relations. Since 2021, the Cambodian Ministry of Culture and Fine Arts says it has been monitoring the construction activities at Wat Phu Man Fah, following concerns and appeals from its citizens over the potential architectural imitation of Angkor Wat, which has been a UNESCO World Heritage Site since 1992 and is emblematic of Cambodia’s national identity. The issues were prominently highlighted and mobilized through social media campaigns such as #SaveAngkorWat, embodying genuine apprehension for national heritage preservation. Addressing these concerns, the Cambodian culture ministry conducted several actions, predominantly involving diplomatic discussions with the Thai authorities, to navigate this sensitive matter judiciously. Cambodian officials have expressed a steadfast commitment to preserving their ancestral heritage and utilizing all viable means to confront and resolve this issue. This approach encompasses “diplomatic engagement, technical verifications, direct site inspections, and adherence to both national and international legal frameworks,” as stated in the ministry’s communication. Inspecting and negotiating with a sturdy stance against any attempts to mimic Cambodia’s national symbols, experts were dispatched to the Wat Phu Man Fah site, revealing that no additional construction had occurred since the initial discovery of the issue. Sum Mab, a ministry spokesperson, underlined that an astute and methodical approach, coupling vigilant monitoring and diplomatic engagements, has been the mainstay of their strategy since 2021. Despite requests, the architectural plans of the developing structure have not been provided by the Thai side, making detailed evaluations of the architectural semblance currently unfeasible. From an academic perspective, history lecturer Sambo Manara acknowledges the impassioned reaction from Cambodians, particularly the youth, accentuating a heartfelt concern for national heritage. Nevertheless, Manara advocates for measured and considerate responses to eschew potential harm to diplomatic relations between Cambodia and Thailand. He notes that Angkor Wat replicas exist in various countries, including France, China, and Japan, and the current construction in Thailand does not yield a true replication of Angkor Wat, particularly since it is still in progress and lacking a comprehensive examination.

ME ! Not sure it will be al all possible to enter there if one doesn't have flight from new terminal but if will be I'd be happy to do the survey. We have similar concept here and outbound it's impossible to go there by mistake as they check boarding cards before bussing one in. Quite possible BKK will have similar concept so all this posibility of error may be academic. In meantime we are waiting for word from somebody who lands first in new Siem Reap airport.

From The Nation The Mass Rapid Transit Authority of Thailand (MRTA) has halted plans to extend the Yellow Line monorail from Lat Phrao to Ratchayothin as the proposal by Eastern Bangkok Monorail (EBM), the concessionaire of the project, has now expired. The plan has been put on hold, as some 100,000 passengers are required to use the service daily to ensure the investment feasibility of this project. Pakapong Sirikantaramas, the governor of the MRTA, revealed that the proposed expansion of the Yellow Line covering a distance of approximately 2.6 kilometers, was submitted by EBM for consideration prior to the opening of the monorail in June. The MRTA says the planned extension to Ratchayothin was not part of the original Mass Rapid Transit Master Plan (M-Map) for Bangkok and its outskirts, and it does not impact the existing rail network. Currently, the area between Ratchada and Lat Phrao is served by the MRTA's Blue Line. Pakapong added that approximately 40,000 passengers use the MRTA's Yellow Line service from Lat Phrao to Samrong on weekdays, with the number falling to about 28,000-30,000 on weekends and public holidays. During the free trial period, when the system was being tested and the service was free of charge, ridership reached 70,000 passengers per day. MRTA anticipates that daily ridership on the Yellow Line should ideally be between 70,000 and 80,000 passengers to be considered successful. If ridership increases to 100,000 passengers per day, growing at a rate of 10% annually, it would make the investment financially viable. Adjusting passenger behaviour to adopt mass transit as the primary mode of transportation will be essential for the project's success.

I tend to ignore mainstream media when it comes to their reporting of science. The journalists are not scientists themselves. They don't understand the science. They don't understand what the studies they're reporting on actually mean. They just regurgitate it into some form that'll get people clicking on their article. Either read the study for yourself, or don't and go about your life as normal.

This all seems kind of silly. A replica will never be Angkor Wat, nor will it ever be a UNESCO World Heritage site. Maybe they'll make replicas of Machu Picchu or the Sphynx next. No one should care.

for fun I checked some prioces in Silom in 2nd half of October and yes several places raised their prices quite a bit but by no means that is universal. Le Siam, Quarter Saladaeng or Raya seem to be holding up, Tarntawan , Baan silom and Furama silom went up a bit Gone are covid days when Crowne Plaza with breakfast over Christmas 2021 could be had for 60 $ and Quarter Silom without breakfast , just 20 $

I think most hotels use some sort of computer software to update their price according to the market and demand. That's why you see hotel price or airlines airfare fluctuate in unison with competitors. If Tarntawan price is higher now, I bet other hotels are higher too.

so may fine establishments. I wonder if any of those fine breakfasts beats one at Foodland Patpong

I am afraid the regular posters on this forum do not have this type of experience. You need to look hot yourself to attract anyone for the type of action you described.

I am in the midst of planning a trip for January and have been checking on these sorts of things. If you search on Google maps for hotels in a certain area it will give you a listing of rates from several different suppliers for each property. I agree that Agoda typically has good deals. But I have been booking directly with the properties instead. Most of the time they have the same deals and will sometimes throw in some other perks. I know Agoda has a loyalty program of sorts, but the benefits usually have to be used within a short amount of time. I've never bothered to try, but I think if Agoda has a significantly lower rate I might contact the hotel directly to see if they will match it.

I never did the bottle thing but few times was invited , along with boys by members who order one. Advantage is you and your party don't need to finish. Bar will put your name on the bottle and in day or few you can and continue. Disadvantage is that you may get drunk fast if not careful. I was told it's 3000 - 3500 baht , more if you order some imported treat. While it may sound a lot it may work well as it lasts longer, you save on boys drinks, usually they give you free chasers (coke , water etc. ) and on next visit you don't need to pay for drink to enter , you just tell them you have bottle opened and they let you and your party if any to enter free. As for tips I'd say the same like you invite boy and buy him a drink, depending of time they sat with you and how progressive you were with them (or they with you) 100-500 should be fair I guess. If you decide to off one of those boys I'd not be tipping him as he get his share in your room. Hope somebody with more experience will chip in with better advice ......... I agree with your statement as repeat business is better for both sides. Each one knows already what to expect and what is expected. Usually subsequent meets are much better than initial one but there are exceptions to watch. Some guys are getting too comfortable and lazy unfortunately. Others may tend to take an ownership of you when you visit their bar inviting themselves immediately and asking for drink. Way I try to keep them on shorter leash if sense that is I tell them I'll be offing them again tonight but will be sitting and drinking with somebody else - kind of what you did at Freshboys

I do, specially that I know jason1975 and fun is guaranteed but can't find airfare within my price range, checking every day though and hope to pull the same stunt I did in May when I booked trip on Thursday and was sitting in the plane already on Sunday

For your first trip to Brazil, I trust you know to be super careful with the packed mob at Tomorrowland! Bring no watch, no ring, no billfold. If you cannot live without your phone, consider stashing it in underwear with security pockets, such as here and here. And you can always put some reals in your socks or underwear. Young 39yo Israeli, eh? Of course, if you look even remotely like your porn countrymen Jonathan Agassi and Michael Lucas, you'll have plenty of covert fun at any Ipanema (if you want more upscale) or Copacabana gym.

Aren't all gyms gay 😝

I agreee totally with @macaroni21! On my very first visit to Tokyo several decades ago, I stayed in the huge Keio Plaza Hotel in west Shinjuku. I had come from 10 days in several cities in the USA where I had found myself caught out by the level of tips expected in restaurants and even by the hotels' room maids. Being European and used to 10% service charges or tips around that level automatically added to bills, the looks I'd been getting unless I added at least another 5% were extremely offputting. In one case even aggressive. By 15 or so years ago, many waiters would not move from your table if the tip was less than 20%. I was immediately charmed by the politeness and civility of the Japanese receptionist as well as the cuteness of the bellboy who took me and my luggage up to my room. Like @macaroni21's friend, I offered a ¥100 coin as a small tip (then around 40 US cents). He drew back from me, clearly offended that I had offered him anything. It was only then I realised that tipping in Japan is a no-no. I fully understand that there is a problem in Thailand where prostitution is illegal - no matter how widespread it is. Most of us are well aware that a tip is in fact a fee, but we go along with the charade. I did find it more pleasant in the 1980s and 1990s when tips were " up to you." And I think i was a good tipper, especially when the assignation was particularly pleasureable (as almost all were)! Only once in so many dozens and dozens of offs did any boy ask for more - and he was from Screwboys about 20 years ago.

DAY 5 The frustrations of the previous day forgotten, I'm starting to enjoy being by the beach in Pattaya. The vibe is far, far different from Bangkok's, I have to say. The sight of a farang - typically in his 50s and up - sitting by himself at a bar in the middle of the day, staring rather blankly out into the street, is surprising in its ubiquity. Meanwhile, the locals almost seem to treat tourists who cross their path with an indifference that sometimes crosses over into badly concealed exasperation, as I found out when I asked for a grocery bag at the supermarket. (The sustainability movement hasn’t missed Thailand, so bags have to purchased at certain large retailers – Big C in this case.) I decide that I want a massage today, but as it turns out, the big guy up there had other ideas. I was in the Boyztown vicinity, and remember a fellow forum-er (Christian?) posting about a place called Relax Massage that boasts rather fetching lads. I stroll past the joint, but perhaps it’s too early in the day – this was slightly before 2 p.m. – and the few masseurs who were present did nothing for me. I ended up taking a rather pleasant jaunt back to my hotel along the beachfront instead, which actually wasn’t a bad substitute for the missed massage. I try my luck on Grindr later in the afternoon for an in-call masseur, and of course make the mistake of not asking for a video chat first. The boy shows up, and the discrepancy between the person in the profile and the boy in the flesh is just too wide for me to ignore. (He had photoshopped his acne issues out of the pictures, and there *were* issues.) I politely declined the session, and gave him 200 baht for his troubles. I wonder if it was too generous, but he did get all dressed up in a button-down shirt and slacks. I choose to be charitable about the misleading photos, since it seems to be common practice hereabouts – he was likely just doing what he needed to, to conduct business. Lesson learnt. As consolation, I buy myself a couple of cocktails at the Hilton’s rooftop bar. The view over the sea at sunset is quite sublime, though – IMHO – the curving stretch of Beach Rd. glittering in the gloom of dusk is by far the more attractive view. Spent an hour and a half there, staring out at the city lights with a sea breeze in my face. Definitely a highlight of the trip so far. I head off to Sunee later in the night – which did not prove an auspicious beginning, unfortunately! Nice Boys was first, but its crowd is a *little* too rough around the edges for me. There are maybe 8 boys hanging around in their undies, with nary a customer in sight. I decide that I would rather not stay, and take off to Winner. This was around 10 p.m., but all I saw were two patrons seated outside. I’m assuming that the boys are all indoors with their patrons, but that was an assumption indeed. Inside, there’s no one on stage, but two small clusters of boys seated around, who can barely be bothered to get up. That’s it for me. I decide that Sunee is not happening tonight, and set off at a brisk stroll for Boyztown. First stop: Classic Boys, which I skipped last night. There is a clutch of boys in their undies, but no one catches my eye. I head off to Toy Boys, where there is a larger selection – 16 tonight, the papa tells me ruefully, when at their busiest there are something like 30 – but it’s pretty much the same line-up from last night. I buy a beer, then head to Dream Boys, where I chat a little with Arm and the mama. (@floridarob, you are completely right. Arm’s enthusiasm with a john dips significantly after the first encounter.) Nothing much is happening there, so I swing into X-Boys to take in the show, which was a surprisingly fun time! It was the right amount of farce for me, with certain acts an improbable mix of the erotic and the completely ludicrous – the standout here being the one where boys do pull-ups with buckets of paint (? – I think) tied to their erections. And then there’s the act where they play miniature golf with their er, flesh putters … The difference between bars that boast shows, and those without, is stark. Like BBB last night, XB is packed out this evening. There are a couple of lookers in their roster, but those guys get called to other tables pretty quickly, so I head back to Dream. I’m very, very keen on a boy named Dao, who apparently has been at the bar less than a week, but he seems shy, with limited English skills. For some reason, he’s reluctant to be offed this evening. My initial guess is that he’s none too fond of me, but he communicates through the mama that he’s free the following night, and even asks me before I leave what time I’m dropping in tomorrow for him, so perhaps I’m not a complete ogre. Mama recommends another boy, Boy. Yes, that is indeed his real name.. Boy has a great smile, so I’m won over. “Straight, but can smoke”, I’m told. We go out for supper at the all-night Thai-Chinese place next door, where one can get braised duck at 1.30 am in the morning!! Praise be to the gods. Boy hails from a town in the south of Laos, and has been working in Pattaya for about a year, or slightly less than. Back at the hotel, the purported straightness of these boys is once again, I find, belied by their reaction to another male body in bed. After he leaves, I sit on the balcony and have a puff and listen to one of my favourite tunes, Carole King's "It's Too Late", and think about ex-lovers, and good times and bad. Tonight, I’m off to see Dao. Wish me luck, folks.

Despite having been to the US many times, I am still amazed at this practice and the amounts involved. On the other hand, I have seen Americans get all flustered in Asia when service providers refuse their tips. Once incident I remember: I was once travelling with an American colleague to a secondary city outside Beijing. We were going up to our hotel rooms after check-in, and a bellboy was helping us with our luggage. When we reached our rooms, he offered a tip to the bellboy, who refused it, saying something like "I'm only doing my job, sir." The bellboy's accent was difficult to understand (though I would credit him for speaking in English at all, and in a secondary city too - how many American bellboys in, say, Cincinnati, can speak Chinese?), but I knew what he said. However, my colleague (ike so many Americans) had a hard time dealing with foreign accents, and didn't know what the bellboy said, only that the chap wouldn't take the money. My colleague looked at me and asked in a whisper, "Is it too little?". Yes, that was what crossed his mind! I am much, much happier in countries, like in Asia, where tipping is not expected. Thailand is actually one of those countries. The problem is that the gogobars and massage parlours mis-use the word "tip" to mean service fee. Thus causing much confusion.

in reality what other country has boy gogos of similar variety ? Mamasan was sensible by explaining whole process as in fact it's quite possible for novice in Thailand , not knowing prices , to assume that price quoted includes everything. This is a case in Japan I understand but of course not 500. Quite possible Toy Boy incident in report above was result of such false assumption One of massage guys I know recently had misfortune of having two Chinese customers in one day and they both refused to tip him claiming that massage fees should include everything. He says they were explained all , just played cheap trick. Poor boy, two assholes in one day on the table! sorry , double quote by mistake then go next time , If you don't you will never know doesn't matter how many reports you will read and how many clips on YouTube you will watch. Nice Boys is a must to visit IMHO Depending of how many days you will be there but I would say make sure you visit both areas. Not that it's very far, in 10-15 minutes by motorsai taxi you will be in Jomtien and walk from Boyztown to Sunee is even less then that. In Sunee you have only 2 go-gos, Winners and Nice Boys so easily you can visit 2 areas on one night. Second round in Boyztown is also good idea as there may be some pickings you missed on your first visit because of their absence.

Day 4 The Pattaya virgin arrives in the promised land. Unfortunately, most of the day was spent in an incredibly frustrating back-and-forth with the hotel: I arrived to find that my category of room had been overbooked; I didn't like the room they offered me and requested another, only to find that the wifi in my substitute room of choice was non-existent, so ultimately returned to the original room they had offered. Ugh. The only thing that kept me from losing my sh*t like any entitled first-world tourist was the toke I had earlier, so all involved kept smiling on in the Land of Smiles - the most graceful outcome one could have hoped for. In between, I managed to make my way to Central Festival, a short stroll down Pattaya Beach, for lunch. Chain restaurants in a mall are just that, though, and the bucket list for tomorrow involves a decent place for a meal, either the buffet lunch at the Hilton or a nice seafood joint on Jomtien. I am dying to have a whole crab, all to myself ... After a post-dinner nap, I make my way to Boyztown - finally! I poke my head in at Toy Boyz first. There's a decent line-up of about 20 boys or so, all clad in their skivvies, but no show, so it's a tad awkward with them on stage all staring at you ... TB doesn't charge an entrance fee; beers are 300 baht. Only a handful of boys in the roster catch my eye. It's me and maybe 4 or 5 other johns in there, including several women, and at one point another shows up - a South Asian dude - and very quickly picks a boy out. Boy disappears to change into his civvies, and while he's gone, there seems to be some drama or misunderstanding of some sort, and the john leaves sans boy. The boy quite naturally throws a hissy fit, having already put on his clothes and assumed he was offed for the evening. In any case, I wasn't enthused about hanging around at TB, and decide to make my rounds of the other bars. I amble over to X-Boys and Dream Boys. Business seems slow, even for a Friday night. XB has a small crowd, and several small-ish twinks in their undies and angel wings are performing a number onstage. Not my cup of tea, so I cross the soi to Dream Boys, where the boys are wearing jeans. It's dead quiet, with no one in there - "no show", I was told - but several boys look promising, and I make a mental note to return if nothing else transpires elsewhere. At A-Bomb, the boys sitting outside again suggest a lack of patrons inside. When I show up, they all follow me indoors and leap up onto the stage to begin parading. They're all clad in jeans, and I'm not convinced. I ultimately end up at, yes, Boyz Boyz Boyz. The place is *packed* to the gills. They have a small army of boys parading around up on stage, and, unsurprisingly, quality varies quite widely. Only a handful are flaunting their wares shirtless, while the rest are fully clothed, which I find bizarre for a go-go. One guy catches my eye: he's built, tatted, with a real bad boy vibe to him, and quite obviously straight. There's also a big muscle daddy type - who goes by the handle "jakkrit_pongpaew" on Insta - so if anyone's on the prowl for huge bears in Pats, the zoo ain't where they're at. Like most other bars, BBB doesn't charge an entrance fee, and beers begin at 350 baht. I stay for the show, but clearly a single guy who's nursing one beer isn't a priority when there are large groups buying their booze by the bottle, so service standards aren't great, plus bad boy and muscle daddy get called over to a table by another guy, so after the show ends I cut my losses and return to Dream Boys. There's one other group of Thais in there playing a drinking game, but otherwise everyone seems to be jostling for space at BBB. No complaints from me. The DB crowd seems a little more on the rough trade side than their TB counterparts - just one man's impression - and there are one or two cuties. "All straight", the mama tells me. OK. I make my pick: a jock-y, party boy type who has one of the cutest faces in the room, and goes by "Arm". Off fee 500, tip 2000 minimum. We head back to my hotel, and it becomes quite obvious that Arm is certainly not as straight as DB mama claims. I think my dry spell is over. I'm not sure if I should do a second round of Boyz Town tomorrow, or hit Jomtien or Sunee. Suggestions welcome.

Actually rather nice to read an actual trip report that isn't just another tedious litany of "when and where I got fucked in the arse", - or the pursuit thereof - which is, effectively, what most of them are these days. Let us hope it doesn't go south from here...

DAYS 2 and 3 My two and half days in Bangkok were completely unproductive. Had plans to check out a couple of cafes, finally visit Icon Siam, drop in at a friend’s new gallery space - but of course all I did was get a few massages, toke up, hit the bars, in that order. The rain didn’t help. Kicked off my second day with some work, then it was off to Prime, a hop and a skip away, for a Thai massage. Was considering a more erotic experience at Jey or Prince, but those required a commute and I needed a real massage more than anything else. The clientele at Prime was almost exclusively male and gay; hardly a surprise. My masseur had some muscles on him, and looked pretty cute behind his mask, but gave off what I can only describe as straight vibes. (Has anyone tried propositioning the guys at Prime?) It was 550 baht for an hour and a half, sans tip for your boy. Had lunch at Mango Tree post-massage, but as I pointed out in my previous post, the chef there is a little too generous with the sugar. Wound up the day with dinner and drinks with a pal in Chinatown, which can be wonderfully tranquil after hours. Thanks to the reality of gentrification, there are any number of chic eateries and bars popping up these days. We dined at the Chop Chop Cookhouse, a new entity that took over an entire building that used to house a goldsmith’s. After food, we ended up for drinks at the cluster of bars on Soi Nana: the well-known Ba Hao is overhyped, but Asia Today - queer-friendly, queer-owned(?), both perhaps - was great. They have a cocktail menu that features drinks made from their collection of honey. Tried a couple, both fantastic. Cute, nerdy engineer type by himself next to us truck up a convo, and I think was trying to be friendly with me especially, but we didn’t hang out to chat, so that was that. Pal headed back to her hotel after cocktails, and I to Moonlight. One thing you’ve got to say about the place: they bother about standards. Whole new roster of faces in their non-model department, with quite a few head-turners. The papa I was acquainted with, Maxco, had also disappeared. Nothing new show-wise, but the models were a small group that evening, with only six present. There was Tum, York, Babe (of course), Mark and two others whose names I don’t know. I offed one of the regular boys, who told me he was Bank from Chiang Mai. He was a classic twink: fair-skinned, slim, athletic, big-eyed (likely the result of a surgeon’s knife rather than genetics, though I didn’t ask). He stayed the night, and the next morning, over a bagel and coffee, gave me the real scoop on himself: no Thai boy from CM, but like so many others in this business, from Myanmar. In his case, a Shan boy hailing from a town on the Myanmar-Thai border. He did go to school in Chiang Rai though, educated in a NGO-run school for underprivileged kids. The result: he proved to be a pretty good conversationalist with better-than-average linguistic skills, esp. English, and a decent dinner date. My thanks to the NGOs of SEA. My third day was even less thrilling; it was rinse and repeat. Work matters in the morn, a massage at Prime after lunch, a nap, and then I met Mr. Bouncer for dinner (from my first evening at Tawan). Original plan was to check out The Commons, but Saladaeng Rd was completely flooded out and near impassable on foot. We ended up at one of the Japanese joints on Soi Thaniya instead, cheek by jowl with the girlie bars. Got to know him a little better: he used to work as a Tawan boy back in the old space, but, now in his mid 40s and with a teenaged son to support, has decided to focus on more sustainable income sources (bouncer-ing is one of several side gigs apparently). I like him quite a bit: friendly and unpretentious, not hardened like some other bar boys, and clearly not out to fleece me for all I'm worth - though appreciative of the income opportunity I represent. Will probably hook up with him again the next time I'm in town. Rounded out my short, rainy stay in Bangkok on the rooftop deck of the Quarter Silom, staring up at the illuminated Lego tower that is the Mahanakhon, with a roll and some Donald Fagen on the playlist. Things have been decidedly dull so far in the sex department, but making a couple of new friends hasn't been a bad way of spending the last few days. Sitting in a restaurant in Pattaya as I type this, my first time in this city. Here's hoping the rest of the trip is more exciting ..

Pullman all the way for me! Excellent hotel and mostly gay Asian clientele

If price is not really a factor, the 5-star Sukhothai Hotel on Sathorn has amazing breakfast buffets.

I've bern in Athens for a week or so. Omonia is scarcely a shadow of its former self. I'd normally pick up 2 or 3 guys a day. I'm not interested in the 25 year + iv drug addicts. Victoria is mostly Egyptians with attitude and nothing but trouble. I managed one tryst in Omonia with a 23 year old who claimed to be Turkish. I suspect he was Pakistani. I was clear what I wanted beforehand, but in the s/t room he refused to do anything except let me suck him. Waste of time. I paid him nothing and ignored his bs pleas for money. The porn cine near the Economy Hotel has some real dregs. I did have a nice massage with bj ending in a porn cinema near Syntagma. 45e plus a tip. Similar experience at M2M massage 35 e for good massage in prof looking set up plus 30 e for bj ending.